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And what about when companies these days exploit the term "caring"? I like programming as much as the next person here but i'm not going to code 80 hours a day

And what about when companies these days exploit the term "caring"? I like programming as much as the next person here but i'm not going to code 80 hours a day. I also like going to gym and working out, riding my bike, playing soccer and hanging out with friends. Companies these days expect you to have side projects or contribution to popular open source libraries while having a job. Oh and did i mention asking you questions about algorithms and data-structures that you most likely haven't used in years and won't be using for foreseeable future?

busterarm 8y ago
Related point, some companies don't intentionally exploit this but end up hiring someone who works and commits code cowboy style 14 hours a day. The company thinks that person is amazing while the person's coworkers hate working with them.
- scarface74 8y ago
  I’ve worked crazy hours for weeks at a time learning a new to me technology or trying to figure out something. I purposefully, don’t tell anyone that I’m working late or on weekends and I don’t send or respond to emails outside of office hours. When I was Dev lead, I recommended no one send or respond to emails outside of normal office hours. If they were really having an issue or wanted to work late to figure out something and they had a quick question, I would sometimes answer over Skype but I would never communicate outside of the team or with management outside of office hours unless something was blowing up. Even then, my manager would have to call me or Skype me. I told them that I don’t have work email on my personal phone.
- shagie 8y ago
  C2 called this a Hero Culture and labeled it as an organizational anti pattern. http://wiki.c2.com/?HeroCulture http://wiki.c2.com/?HeroCulture
mirko22 8y ago
On the other hand imagine how much you would learn if you could spend all you gym and bike time learning computer science and other things (not saying you should but the more time you out into something usually you know more about that thing). Also I think knowing data structures is essential cos you are using them ALL the time you just don’t know it cos you never bothered to learn them. But they are corner stone of every program.
- parthdesai 8y ago
  >On the other hand imagine how much you would learn if you could spend all you gym and bike time learning computer science and other things (not saying you should but the more time you out into something usually you know more about that thing). On the other hand imagine how much could you get done if you worked 16 hours a day. Why even take vacation? Imagine how much time you are wasting when you are off on vacation. Oh wait, studies have shown that amount of hours sat in the chair doesn't translate directly into quality work. It might work when you are doing it occasionally as a one-off but won't work everyday. >Also I think knowing data structures is essential cos you are using them ALL the time you just don’t know it cos you never bothered to learn them. But they are corner stone of every program. Did i say that? I know what a graph, BST, Tree, Linked List, Stack and Queue is. Do i know fancy algo's off the top of my head? No. But i also know how and what to google and how to convert that pseudo-code into actual working code.
- AlexandrB 8y ago
  > On the other hand imagine how much you would learn if you could spend all you gym and bike time learning computer science and other things... Probably a lot less. Exercise is associated with better mental acuity and reduced risk of mental deterioration with age[1]. Edit: Oh, and if you instead trade sleep for learning you're shooting yourself in the foot as well[2]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3951958/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3951958/ [2] http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/matters/benefits-of-sleep/learning-memory http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/matters/benefits...
- hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
  On the other hand imagine how much you would learn if you could spend all you gym and bike time learning computer science and other things You'd reach burnout extremely quickly. You'd literally go insane. Your body would break down rapidly. None of these are good for anyone involved.
zhengwang 8y ago
Join the resistance brother. http://they.whiteboarded.me/companies-that-dont-whiteboard.html http://they.whiteboarded.me/companies-that-dont-whiteboard.h...

busterarm 8y ago

Related point, some companies don't intentionally exploit this but end up hiring someone who works and commits code cowboy style 14 hours a day. The company thinks that person is amazing while the person's coworkers hate working with them.

scarface74 8y ago
I’ve worked crazy hours for weeks at a time learning a new to me technology or trying to figure out something. I purposefully, don’t tell anyone that I’m working late or on weekends and I don’t send or respond to emails outside of office hours. When I was Dev lead, I recommended no one send or respond to emails outside of normal office hours. If they were really having an issue or wanted to work late to figure out something and they had a quick question, I would sometimes answer over Skype but I would never communicate outside of the team or with management outside of office hours unless something was blowing up. Even then, my manager would have to call me or Skype me. I told them that I don’t have work email on my personal phone.
shagie 8y ago
C2 called this a Hero Culture and labeled it as an organizational anti pattern. http://wiki.c2.com/?HeroCulture http://wiki.c2.com/?HeroCulture

mirko22 8y ago

On the other hand imagine how much you would learn if you could spend all you gym and bike time learning computer science and other things (not saying you should but the more time you out into something usually you know more about that thing). Also I think knowing data structures is essential cos you are using them ALL the time you just don’t know it cos you never bothered to learn them. But they are corner stone of every program.

parthdesai 8y ago
>On the other hand imagine how much you would learn if you could spend all you gym and bike time learning computer science and other things (not saying you should but the more time you out into something usually you know more about that thing). On the other hand imagine how much could you get done if you worked 16 hours a day. Why even take vacation? Imagine how much time you are wasting when you are off on vacation. Oh wait, studies have shown that amount of hours sat in the chair doesn't translate directly into quality work. It might work when you are doing it occasionally as a one-off but won't work everyday. >Also I think knowing data structures is essential cos you are using them ALL the time you just don’t know it cos you never bothered to learn them. But they are corner stone of every program. Did i say that? I know what a graph, BST, Tree, Linked List, Stack and Queue is. Do i know fancy algo's off the top of my head? No. But i also know how and what to google and how to convert that pseudo-code into actual working code.
AlexandrB 8y ago
> On the other hand imagine how much you would learn if you could spend all you gym and bike time learning computer science and other things... Probably a lot less. Exercise is associated with better mental acuity and reduced risk of mental deterioration with age[1]. Edit: Oh, and if you instead trade sleep for learning you're shooting yourself in the foot as well[2]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3951958/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3951958/ [2] http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/matters/benefits-of-sleep/learning-memory http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/matters/benefits...
hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
On the other hand imagine how much you would learn if you could spend all you gym and bike time learning computer science and other things You'd reach burnout extremely quickly. You'd literally go insane. Your body would break down rapidly. None of these are good for anyone involved.

zhengwang 8y ago

Join the resistance brother. http://they.whiteboarded.me/companies-that-dont-whiteboard.html http://they.whiteboarded.me/companies-that-dont-whiteboard.h...