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Because me telling you that your code sucks is not being anti-gay if you are gay or anti-trans if you are trans. It is me telling you that your code sucks. You

Because me telling you that your code sucks is not being anti-gay if you are gay or anti-trans if you are trans. It is me telling you that your code sucks. You should either make your code not suck, or you can GTFO unless I'm lower on the org chart than you are, then you can do whatever you want, including telling me to shove it or GTFO and based on how I feel about it, I can either forget about it or GTFO. That's equality - we are dealing with code and not our sexual lifestyle(s). Org chart is used to determine who gets to win in the argument if neither of the two sides are willing to budge. Alternatively, we can spend a year debating if me using a word "suck" is appropriate or triggering because you found out based on the DNA testing of your twice removed uncle that his grandfather was lactose intolerant which caused you to develop an emotional response while your code continues to suck and create problems, causing the company to lose money or a project to lose users.

tylermac1 8y ago
You must be insufferable to be around. Here's a novel idea, how about instead of directly resorting to "Your code sucks." we instead say something like "I think there's still some work to do here. Here's the way I would have done this." It's really not that hard to give constructive criticism.
- 08-15 8y ago
  In practice it works like this: "Your code invokes undefined behavior and may fail in the following ways. These corner cases are handled incorrectly. There are a few other cases I'm not sure about, because I have trouble following the logic." "The code is fine. I have tested it!" "It happens to work on you current machine. That's the nature of undefined behavior. It might fail in the future without warning." "I tested it, it works. Now merge it!" "Sorry, man, the code is crap. Go and fix it." Nobody resorts directly to "your code sucks". Engineers love to give constructive criticism, but they hate to give marks for effort. And where constructive arguments fall on deaf ears, they give up and either ignore you or tell you to GTFO. Both are perceived as impolite, but what else could they do?
  - GW150914 8y ago
    It would cost you nothing to replace your last line with, “I’m sorry, but that’s not what we’re seeing and we won’t merge it until you fix it. I understand your passion, but I won’t sacrifice the quality of this project for that. Fix the code so that it no longer invokes undefined behavior and we’ll review it, otherwise we have nothing more to talk about.” The end. No need to call it crap, no need to burn a bridge.
    - 08-15 8y ago
      It costs time and energy, because there is no end to this kind of debate. Some people are persistent and will blame you for explaining badly when they don't understand. These discussions never end; usually not even after things got labelled as crap. Personally, I just stop responding after the technical arguments have been exchanged. There is no point in repeating what was ignored already, no point in ELI5, no point to using swear words, silence is what works best. By the way, if you told me "I understand your passion, but...", I'd be angry beyond belief. That's the way you talk to children, and even my mother is no longer allowed to talk to me like that. I consider that a stronger insult than my code being called crap. Which probably shows that shutting up in time is the best response.
      - GW150914 8y ago
        It costs time and energy, because there is no end to this kind of debate. The end is “nothing more to talk about,” and then you stop replying. As to time and energy, if you’re so depleted than an extra few sentences will materially impact you, then that is a problem. Healthy humans won’t be exhausted by expressing themselves in a half paragraph rather than a muttered “crap”. Some people are persistent and will blame you for explaining badly when they don't understand. These discussions never end; usually not even after things got labelled as crap. So don’t call it crap, just clearly state that you’re not interested anymore and hit ignore. The rest is their problem, not yours, and you’ll gain a reputation for being forthright and firm rather than hysterical. Personally, I just stop responding after the technical arguments have been exchanged. There is no point in repeating what was ignored already, no point in ELI5, no point to using swear words, silence is what works best. Amen brother. By the way, if you told me "I understand your passion, but...", I'd be angry beyond belief. That's the way you talk to children, and even my mother is no longer allowed to talk to me like that. I consider that a stronger insult than my code being called crap. Which probably shows that shutting up in time is the best response. The person in the example was acting like a child, and deserved to be treated (politely) like one. Either way though, my particular wording was just off-the-cuff and only an example.
- notyourday 8y ago
  It is not optimal resource allocation of my most valuable resource - time.
- whiddershins 8y ago
  You just insulted someone personally. Do you see that you did that?
ilikehurdles 8y ago
In the course of your excessive use of hyperbole and strawman, you've effectively turned off anyone who might have been interested in hearing your argument out. I'm not sure what point, if any, you're trying to make here other than to air out grievances about some grossly unrealistic perception of other people based entirely on [social] media stereotypes.
ayyyyylmao2000 8y ago
I don't see any straw-man fallacy on what you wrote. Internet culture is anonymous. That itself says much about status quo. I'm sick of these Social Justice Warrior movements invading every space. I've treated people of every religion, race and sexual orientation as an equal. This is just a mechanism to inject entropy and drive away anyone willing to produce and build marvelous things. But of course a few (self-admitted with a lot of publicity) transsexuals sit atop this movement and harass everyone who does not agree with their views and destroy their life. Like Tso (second in-command) being labeled as a "rape apologist" for not agreeing with the CoC. SJW infiltration is a movement to implement Cold War-era silencing on everyone.
sctb 8y ago
sigh It should be pretty obvious that this thread is going nowhere good. Can we please stop wasting our time shouting past each other? If we're not receptive to learning something new we should just go elsewhere because that's what this site is for.

tylermac1 8y ago

You must be insufferable to be around. Here's a novel idea, how about instead of directly resorting to "Your code sucks." we instead say something like "I think there's still some work to do here. Here's the way I would have done this." It's really not that hard to give constructive criticism.

08-15 8y ago
In practice it works like this: "Your code invokes undefined behavior and may fail in the following ways. These corner cases are handled incorrectly. There are a few other cases I'm not sure about, because I have trouble following the logic." "The code is fine. I have tested it!" "It happens to work on you current machine. That's the nature of undefined behavior. It might fail in the future without warning." "I tested it, it works. Now merge it!" "Sorry, man, the code is crap. Go and fix it." Nobody resorts directly to "your code sucks". Engineers love to give constructive criticism, but they hate to give marks for effort. And where constructive arguments fall on deaf ears, they give up and either ignore you or tell you to GTFO. Both are perceived as impolite, but what else could they do?
- GW150914 8y ago
  It would cost you nothing to replace your last line with, “I’m sorry, but that’s not what we’re seeing and we won’t merge it until you fix it. I understand your passion, but I won’t sacrifice the quality of this project for that. Fix the code so that it no longer invokes undefined behavior and we’ll review it, otherwise we have nothing more to talk about.” The end. No need to call it crap, no need to burn a bridge.
  - 08-15 8y ago
    It costs time and energy, because there is no end to this kind of debate. Some people are persistent and will blame you for explaining badly when they don't understand. These discussions never end; usually not even after things got labelled as crap. Personally, I just stop responding after the technical arguments have been exchanged. There is no point in repeating what was ignored already, no point in ELI5, no point to using swear words, silence is what works best. By the way, if you told me "I understand your passion, but...", I'd be angry beyond belief. That's the way you talk to children, and even my mother is no longer allowed to talk to me like that. I consider that a stronger insult than my code being called crap. Which probably shows that shutting up in time is the best response.
    - GW150914 8y ago
      It costs time and energy, because there is no end to this kind of debate. The end is “nothing more to talk about,” and then you stop replying. As to time and energy, if you’re so depleted than an extra few sentences will materially impact you, then that is a problem. Healthy humans won’t be exhausted by expressing themselves in a half paragraph rather than a muttered “crap”. Some people are persistent and will blame you for explaining badly when they don't understand. These discussions never end; usually not even after things got labelled as crap. So don’t call it crap, just clearly state that you’re not interested anymore and hit ignore. The rest is their problem, not yours, and you’ll gain a reputation for being forthright and firm rather than hysterical. Personally, I just stop responding after the technical arguments have been exchanged. There is no point in repeating what was ignored already, no point in ELI5, no point to using swear words, silence is what works best. Amen brother. By the way, if you told me "I understand your passion, but...", I'd be angry beyond belief. That's the way you talk to children, and even my mother is no longer allowed to talk to me like that. I consider that a stronger insult than my code being called crap. Which probably shows that shutting up in time is the best response. The person in the example was acting like a child, and deserved to be treated (politely) like one. Either way though, my particular wording was just off-the-cuff and only an example.
notyourday 8y ago
It is not optimal resource allocation of my most valuable resource - time.
whiddershins 8y ago
You just insulted someone personally. Do you see that you did that?

ilikehurdles 8y ago

In the course of your excessive use of hyperbole and strawman, you've effectively turned off anyone who might have been interested in hearing your argument out. I'm not sure what point, if any, you're trying to make here other than to air out grievances about some grossly unrealistic perception of other people based entirely on [social] media stereotypes.

ayyyyylmao2000 8y ago

I don't see any straw-man fallacy on what you wrote. Internet culture is anonymous. That itself says much about status quo. I'm sick of these Social Justice Warrior movements invading every space. I've treated people of every religion, race and sexual orientation as an equal. This is just a mechanism to inject entropy and drive away anyone willing to produce and build marvelous things. But of course a few (self-admitted with a lot of publicity) transsexuals sit atop this movement and harass everyone who does not agree with their views and destroy their life. Like Tso (second in-command) being labeled as a "rape apologist" for not agreeing with the CoC. SJW infiltration is a movement to implement Cold War-era silencing on everyone.

sctb 8y ago

sigh It should be pretty obvious that this thread is going nowhere good. Can we please stop wasting our time shouting past each other? If we're not receptive to learning something new we should just go elsewhere because that's what this site is for.