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You said this stuff “pushes me away from it.” It should push you away from the troublesome people, and nothing more. When you say most people leave this stuff

You said this stuff “pushes me away from it.” It should push you away from the troublesome people, and nothing more. When you say most people leave this stuff at home, that seems to imply that the status quo is neutral. It isn’t. Continuing to treat people the way you always have is just as much of a statement as saying you should treat people differently. It’s just easier to find agreement.

yourbandsucks 8y ago
I'm a different person than the original poster, but hey I'm pushed away too, so let's go with it. SJWs do not have a monopoly on thought, on how to deal with societal problems, or any of that. This isn't a 'tolerance of intolerance' thing, it's a 'tolerance of those outside your very narrow camp' thing. Most of the individuals I've encountered couldn't tell you who their congressman is, and they'd never go door to door canvassing voters. But they want to make up an ever-escalating list of things that are offensive and enforce it on me at work. Are we trying to break down barriers or are we trying to erect them?
- ilikehurdles 8y ago
  What offensive rules have you faced?
  - yourbandsucks 8y ago
    People going after antirez recently. Dude's italian. Stop projecting your American racial baggage on him. Now, some people have gone after the terms 'whitelist' and 'blacklist'. Also extremely silly. Nobody confuses black people for literal chromatic black. "Wait, you're actually a shade of brown! That guy too!". And, sure, maybe I should just be reasonable and go along with this stuff. It's not hurting anyone, right? But how come the loudest and dumbest get to dominate the discourse? We all must obey them, or else we're racist or at best unreasonable?
- mikeash 8y ago
  By talking about how problematic these people are, you miss and reinforce my point. I’m not saying anything about how they behave or whether it’s acceptable or helpful. I’m saying that how you behave should not be determined by them. If you’ve decided not to encourage people to do the right thing (or, worse, stop doing the right thing yourself) because some other people are jerks, you’re just making excuses for behaving badly. There is a useful discussion to be had about persuasion. Phrases like “it pushes people away” are perfectly fine of that’s what happens. But when it becomes “it pushes me away,” well, take some responsibility for your own beliefs and actions.
  - yourbandsucks 8y ago
    As far as my side of the street: I've knocked on a LOT of doors for progressive candidates, and will continue to do so. Don't you worry about me. But do you see the box you're building? I'm either 100% on board with an ever-more-extreme program, or I'm somehow revealing the evil nature of my heart by being turned off by them? I'm very serious about the persuasion component, and the fact that it's pushing EVEN ME away ought to set off alarm bells. If they're annoying and unpersuasive to me, how on earth would they be perceived by someone in Ohio? Have they ever met someone from Ohio?
    - mikeash 8y ago
      That’s not the box I’m building at all. Here’s what I’m trying to say: figure out what you believe in, figure out what to do, and then do it. Don’t account for how other people advocate for it, just do your own thing. If you think they’re useless or even counterproductive then fine, but if that changes how you do things then you’re doing it wrong.

yourbandsucks 8y ago

I'm a different person than the original poster, but hey I'm pushed away too, so let's go with it. SJWs do not have a monopoly on thought, on how to deal with societal problems, or any of that. This isn't a 'tolerance of intolerance' thing, it's a 'tolerance of those outside your very narrow camp' thing. Most of the individuals I've encountered couldn't tell you who their congressman is, and they'd never go door to door canvassing voters. But they want to make up an ever-escalating list of things that are offensive and enforce it on me at work. Are we trying to break down barriers or are we trying to erect them?

ilikehurdles 8y ago
What offensive rules have you faced?
- yourbandsucks 8y ago
  People going after antirez recently. Dude's italian. Stop projecting your American racial baggage on him. Now, some people have gone after the terms 'whitelist' and 'blacklist'. Also extremely silly. Nobody confuses black people for literal chromatic black. "Wait, you're actually a shade of brown! That guy too!". And, sure, maybe I should just be reasonable and go along with this stuff. It's not hurting anyone, right? But how come the loudest and dumbest get to dominate the discourse? We all must obey them, or else we're racist or at best unreasonable?
mikeash 8y ago
By talking about how problematic these people are, you miss and reinforce my point. I’m not saying anything about how they behave or whether it’s acceptable or helpful. I’m saying that how you behave should not be determined by them. If you’ve decided not to encourage people to do the right thing (or, worse, stop doing the right thing yourself) because some other people are jerks, you’re just making excuses for behaving badly. There is a useful discussion to be had about persuasion. Phrases like “it pushes people away” are perfectly fine of that’s what happens. But when it becomes “it pushes me away,” well, take some responsibility for your own beliefs and actions.
- yourbandsucks 8y ago
  As far as my side of the street: I've knocked on a LOT of doors for progressive candidates, and will continue to do so. Don't you worry about me. But do you see the box you're building? I'm either 100% on board with an ever-more-extreme program, or I'm somehow revealing the evil nature of my heart by being turned off by them? I'm very serious about the persuasion component, and the fact that it's pushing EVEN ME away ought to set off alarm bells. If they're annoying and unpersuasive to me, how on earth would they be perceived by someone in Ohio? Have they ever met someone from Ohio?
  - mikeash 8y ago
    That’s not the box I’m building at all. Here’s what I’m trying to say: figure out what you believe in, figure out what to do, and then do it. Don’t account for how other people advocate for it, just do your own thing. If you think they’re useless or even counterproductive then fine, but if that changes how you do things then you’re doing it wrong.