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Of course a Code of Conduct is a political document.

by zellyn 8y ago

nailer 8y ago
That's worrying, it shouldn't be. - Ethics are things the overwhelming majority of humans agree on. - Politics are not. Edit for 'edent' below due to rate limit: Were you replying to someone else? My comment mentioned the majority of people agree on ethics. Racial, gender, sexual preference and religious discrimination isn't considered OK in most western countries. Additionally, you're derailing the discussion by talking about discrimination. The entire reason this thread was started was because there's concern that that the CoC doesn't merely ensure ethics, but (as mentioned in the examples in this thread) has been used to harass people for what most humans would consider ethical behavior.
- steve_taylor 8y ago
  I would at least say it needn't be. Can we not set out rules for an open source community to follow without enumerating the pet peeves and favourite protected classes in descending order of importance to the document's author?
- zellyn 8y ago
  Anything that seeks to organize a group of humans is fundamentally political. A code of conduct that seeks to govern or guide how people interact is political. The de-facto emergent norms of how people interact _without_ a code of conduct in place are political. The way people organize and structure power and influence without rules is political. The way people organize and structure power and influence with rules is political. Putting your hands over your eyes and ears and trying to be "non-political" just means you're accepting the de-facto politics that emerge. It probably also means they're working pretty well, for you. Of course, none of that means that heavy-handed, oppressive politicking used as a weapon to increase power is good. There are at least two opposites of doing something badly: not doing it at all, or doing it well. I'd argue that you can't _not_ do politics, so you should try to do it well.
- edent 8y ago
  You are wrong. There are a whole raft of people who truly believe that black/gay/trans/religious/whatever people are not worthy of treating as equals. That they shouldn't be granted the same rights as "normal" people and, in extreme cases, that they aren't really human. A CoC says "These are the ethics of our community." It isn't Politics (which party you vote for), but it is necessarily political.

Of course a Code of Conduct is a political document.

by zellyn 8y ago

Of course a Code of Conduct is a political document.

That's worrying, it shouldn't be. - Ethics are things the overwhelming majority of humans agree on. - Politics are not. Edit for 'edent' below due to rate limit: Were you replying to someone else? My comment mentioned the majority of people agree on ethics. Racial, gender, sexual preference and religious discrimination isn't considered OK in most western countries. Additionally, you're derailing the discussion by talking about discrimination. The entire reason this thread was started was because there's concern that that the CoC doesn't merely ensure ethics, but (as mentioned in the examples in this thread) has been used to harass people for what most humans would consider ethical behavior.

steve_taylor 8y ago
I would at least say it needn't be. Can we not set out rules for an open source community to follow without enumerating the pet peeves and favourite protected classes in descending order of importance to the document's author?
zellyn 8y ago
Anything that seeks to organize a group of humans is fundamentally political. A code of conduct that seeks to govern or guide how people interact is political. The de-facto emergent norms of how people interact _without_ a code of conduct in place are political. The way people organize and structure power and influence without rules is political. The way people organize and structure power and influence with rules is political. Putting your hands over your eyes and ears and trying to be "non-political" just means you're accepting the de-facto politics that emerge. It probably also means they're working pretty well, for you. Of course, none of that means that heavy-handed, oppressive politicking used as a weapon to increase power is good. There are at least two opposites of doing something badly: not doing it at all, or doing it well. I'd argue that you can't _not_ do politics, so you should try to do it well.
edent 8y ago
You are wrong. There are a whole raft of people who truly believe that black/gay/trans/religious/whatever people are not worthy of treating as equals. That they shouldn't be granted the same rights as "normal" people and, in extreme cases, that they aren't really human. A CoC says "These are the ethics of our community." It isn't Politics (which party you vote for), but it is necessarily political.