6 ms·

Starting with XP, all versions of Windows have included a C# compiler in the .Net framework, if you’re willing to use the command line. And Mono has been usable

Starting with XP, all versions of Windows have included a C# compiler in the .Net framework, if you’re willing to use the command line. And Mono has been usable for most things for a long time. And Microsoft has offered free versions of Visual Studio — which may have feature restrictions, but which can be used for production — for more than a decade. And, if you prefer the command line, you can find free SDKs that include everything you might want. Although Microsoft makes a lot of money on development tools, it seems to think that giving away versions of those tools can help drive demand for Windows. Sun tried the same thing, but then advertised Java as making the operating system and hardware irrelevant, so free JDKs don’t appear to have sold many Solaris systems.

pjmlp 8y ago
99% of the typical .NET apps aren't buildable with that bundled compiler, due to lack of associated tooling, windows services and additional libraries. Those free versions of Visual Studio weren't allowed for production when they were called Visual Studio Express. Visual Studio Community only allows production use for companies up to 5 employees, with a specific yearly revenue. Better read the licenses.
- scarface74 8y ago
  How so? That same tooling is used on the build server that compiles the app. From looking at job postings, .Net on the desktop is basically dead. Most companies that are still using .Net are doing it on the server.
  - thrower123 8y ago
    I don't really think that is accurate... There's a lot of desktop .NET development going on still. And for all the buzz that Core is getting, it's still not feature-complete with the 4.5+ full desktop framework.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      Where is all of this desktop .Net development for new projects? There is no momentum for .Net or practically any other desktop development. The only major companies still making any real money on the desktop are Microsoft and Adobe. Anyone else looking for desktop developers are doing internal apps and they are trying to move as quickly to the web as possible.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        Some examples, https://www.labmanautomation.com/ https://www.labmanautomation.com/ https://lifesci.com/ https://lifesci.com/ https://www.zeiss.com/microscopy/int/products/imaging-systems/smartzoom-5.html https://www.zeiss.com/microscopy/int/products/imaging-system...
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Completely wrong, WPF is quite active in Europe, specially in health sector for laboratory automation devices, factory management systems, control panels in IoT devices and similar. And on the server, majority of .NET Web applications are a typically variation of Sharepoint, SiteCore, Orchard and similar CMS, usually deployed on IIS. .NET Core might do the circles around HN and Reddit, but it is still largely ignored in the typical .NET shops.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      The majority of web apps are SharePoint? I’m far away from the HN bubble and it’s true that .Net Core’s adoption is in its infancy. But the oldest corporate web deployments that people are using is Web Forms, then ASP.Net MVC 3/4 on top of .Net framework and the corresponding Web API framework before they were merged into one with ASP.Net 5 (ASP.Net Core)
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        > variation of Sharepoint, SiteCore, Orchard and similar CMS After the comma I have listed other .NET Web platforms.
    - geezerjay 8y ago
      > Completely wrong, WPF is quite active in Europe, specially in health sector for laboratory automation devices, factory management systems, control panels in IoT devices and similar. That's news to me, and not only I'm from Europe but also I've actually worked on developing UI applications for laboratory equipment. I have seen zero instances of WPF being used anywhere at all. Ever. At this point I'm thoroughly convinced that you're just trolling HN and wasting everyone's time with a constant stream of jibberish.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        Ask and you will be served. https://www.zeiss.com/microscopy/int/products/imaging-systems/smartzoom-5.html https://www.zeiss.com/microscopy/int/products/imaging-system... https://books.google.de/books?id=U5AMFXjNmugC&pg=PA247&lpg=PA247&dq=Pharmacophore+Informatics+bayer&source=bl&ots=iv0T7Lwasp&sig=bhMloAdqkAyMFMoEmRiYKaA3quw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjI1tTu5tvdAhVK1xoKHV25DEoQ6AEwB3oECAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=Pharmacophore%20Informatics%20bayer&f=false https://books.google.de/books?id=U5AMFXjNmugC&pg=PA247&lpg=P... https://lifesci.com/ https://lifesci.com/ https://www.labmanautomation.com/ https://www.labmanautomation.com/ As for trolling, I find sad that on a web site created for people starting business, many feel entitled to get their tools for free, unlike every other professionals.
- maxlybbert 8y ago
  Those are different terms from what I remember for Express. I don’t know if my memory is faulty or if the switch to Community changed things. Wikipedia says Community was meant to be open source friendly at the expense of some commercial projects. It looks like today you’re explicitly allowed to use the free Visual Studio for open source work, noncommercial work, academic work, and small commercial work (“small” defined in terms of team size). If that doesn’t cover your project, you have to try to fit in the BizSpark rules for a temporary fee waiver.

pjmlp 8y ago

99% of the typical .NET apps aren't buildable with that bundled compiler, due to lack of associated tooling, windows services and additional libraries. Those free versions of Visual Studio weren't allowed for production when they were called Visual Studio Express. Visual Studio Community only allows production use for companies up to 5 employees, with a specific yearly revenue. Better read the licenses.

scarface74 8y ago
How so? That same tooling is used on the build server that compiles the app. From looking at job postings, .Net on the desktop is basically dead. Most companies that are still using .Net are doing it on the server.
- thrower123 8y ago
  I don't really think that is accurate... There's a lot of desktop .NET development going on still. And for all the buzz that Core is getting, it's still not feature-complete with the 4.5+ full desktop framework.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Where is all of this desktop .Net development for new projects? There is no momentum for .Net or practically any other desktop development. The only major companies still making any real money on the desktop are Microsoft and Adobe. Anyone else looking for desktop developers are doing internal apps and they are trying to move as quickly to the web as possible.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Some examples, https://www.labmanautomation.com/ https://www.labmanautomation.com/ https://lifesci.com/ https://lifesci.com/ https://www.zeiss.com/microscopy/int/products/imaging-systems/smartzoom-5.html https://www.zeiss.com/microscopy/int/products/imaging-system...
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Completely wrong, WPF is quite active in Europe, specially in health sector for laboratory automation devices, factory management systems, control panels in IoT devices and similar. And on the server, majority of .NET Web applications are a typically variation of Sharepoint, SiteCore, Orchard and similar CMS, usually deployed on IIS. .NET Core might do the circles around HN and Reddit, but it is still largely ignored in the typical .NET shops.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    The majority of web apps are SharePoint? I’m far away from the HN bubble and it’s true that .Net Core’s adoption is in its infancy. But the oldest corporate web deployments that people are using is Web Forms, then ASP.Net MVC 3/4 on top of .Net framework and the corresponding Web API framework before they were merged into one with ASP.Net 5 (ASP.Net Core)
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      > variation of Sharepoint, SiteCore, Orchard and similar CMS After the comma I have listed other .NET Web platforms.
  - geezerjay 8y ago
    > Completely wrong, WPF is quite active in Europe, specially in health sector for laboratory automation devices, factory management systems, control panels in IoT devices and similar. That's news to me, and not only I'm from Europe but also I've actually worked on developing UI applications for laboratory equipment. I have seen zero instances of WPF being used anywhere at all. Ever. At this point I'm thoroughly convinced that you're just trolling HN and wasting everyone's time with a constant stream of jibberish.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Ask and you will be served. https://www.zeiss.com/microscopy/int/products/imaging-systems/smartzoom-5.html https://www.zeiss.com/microscopy/int/products/imaging-system... https://books.google.de/books?id=U5AMFXjNmugC&pg=PA247&lpg=PA247&dq=Pharmacophore+Informatics+bayer&source=bl&ots=iv0T7Lwasp&sig=bhMloAdqkAyMFMoEmRiYKaA3quw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjI1tTu5tvdAhVK1xoKHV25DEoQ6AEwB3oECAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=Pharmacophore%20Informatics%20bayer&f=false https://books.google.de/books?id=U5AMFXjNmugC&pg=PA247&lpg=P... https://lifesci.com/ https://lifesci.com/ https://www.labmanautomation.com/ https://www.labmanautomation.com/ As for trolling, I find sad that on a web site created for people starting business, many feel entitled to get their tools for free, unlike every other professionals.
maxlybbert 8y ago
Those are different terms from what I remember for Express. I don’t know if my memory is faulty or if the switch to Community changed things. Wikipedia says Community was meant to be open source friendly at the expense of some commercial projects. It looks like today you’re explicitly allowed to use the free Visual Studio for open source work, noncommercial work, academic work, and small commercial work (“small” defined in terms of team size). If that doesn’t cover your project, you have to try to fit in the BizSpark rules for a temporary fee waiver.