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“Predator boot camps” in Australia teach once-abundant mammals to fear predators

47 points by extarial 8y ago

John_KZ 8y ago
We need this for humans too.
- bayesian_horse 8y ago
  It's called college. Or catholic seminary.
bayesian_horse 8y ago
This almost sounds like one of those pranks Australians like to play on tourists.
- idbehold 8y ago
  Watch out for those drop bears. https://australianmuseum.net.au/drop-bear https://australianmuseum.net.au/drop-bear
ggm 8y ago
If it works don't knock it! Teaching young pups not to eat cane toads is pretty cool
scotty79 8y ago
> You want a bettong to watch its mate get eaten by a cat and think, ‘Oh, geez, cats are scary,’ Couldn't help but read the last part in Morty voice.
qubax 8y ago
Seems like pointless temporary exercise not even based in science. Even if you "teach" the current batch of rodents to be afraid of cats, how will their offspring be afraid of cats if they aren't naturally inclined to be fearful of predators? The way prey behavior is developed in nature is through evolution. In a batch of animals, there are mutations that cause a small portion of them to be naturally antsy, cautious and afraid. You could see this in litter of puppies. There are some who are very friendly, some that are neutral and some who stand back and are cautious. Same with rats and other rodents. When predators get introduced, the "friendly" ones get killed and the more cautious rodents get to breed, producing more and more cautious rodents over time. It's basic evolution. Of course with the introduction of human supported "super-predators" like cats doesn't give species time to "evolve". Isn't the simple and obvious solution here is to remove feral cats and other non-native predators? Or are feel-good but ineffective "predator boot camps" where preservation is at right now?
- cf141q5325 8y ago
  >Subsequent generations of the test group are also avoiding cats, which indicates parents are passing the relevant behaviors along to their offspring.
  - erikig 8y ago
    Anyone know how these behaviors are passed on from parent to child?
    - moate 8y ago
      A genetic predisposition towards being afraid of predators. The assumption is that if you have 100 mice, and 50 of them show signs of being afraid of cats, then you breed those mice to produce another 100, noting the pairs that produced them. You can then see how many of the offspring are afraid of cats, and select that group to produce the next generation. Some of the fear of cats will be learned behavior, some of it will be instinct. It could also be that the ability to learn the behavior has genetic links (think naturally smart mice). If you keep this cycle going, eventually you have a group that should be higher than your initial 50% fear rate. It's possible that you can't selectively breed for this, but it's also possible that you can. This is in some ways the inverse of how humans domesticated many different species.
      - cimmanom 8y ago
        This experiment seems to have been too short-term to have influenced genetics significantly.
        moate 8y ago
        You're correct, this was only done with a couple generations of animals. Unlikely to have been enough for cultivated development of the behavior genetically. This seems to be more of a "let's just traumatize the animals and hope they change their behavior as a result".
    - 8y ago
gruez 8y ago
shouldn't it be "prey boot camps"? they're training preys, not predators.
andygcook 8y ago
I’m curious if this is nurtured behavior or behavior devolped through an evolutionary process, or both. This reminds me of the fox domestication experiment in Siberia in the 40’s. Researchers bred foxes, kept all the ones that didn’t show as many signs of being afraid of humans, then subsequently bred those ones again (the rest were turned into furs to fund the research.) This process is kind of like that, but in reverse. Will say that these don’t seem to be truly domesticated bettongs, so not quite the same, but still interested. (edit - spelling)
- cimmanom 8y ago
  It looks like it was a short-term experiment (way shorter than the lifespan of a single individual). The actual paper indicates the "bootcamp" lasted 18 months. And they had a control with two pens, only one exposed to the predators.
- trhway 8y ago
  similar to that foxes experiment, i think instead of just teaching bettongs to fear they should have just selectively bred those bettongs who is naturally most fearful. Giving the short lifespan and that such selective breeding would take only a few generations, in several years they would have a population of bettongs genetically wired to fear the predators and thus much better fit for survival in the current conditions.
taneq 8y ago
Australian native animals are mostly pretty terrible at being animals. Possums and kangaroos are the only ones that are fairly effective.
meanonme 8y ago
Hey even animals need... training... that means. Oh bollocks. Is it one weekend where they cram too much material into 20 hours of class time or spread out over a week? Do they get practical certifications or just course credit?

47 points by extarial 8y ago

John_KZ 8y ago

We need this for humans too.

bayesian_horse 8y ago
It's called college. Or catholic seminary.

bayesian_horse 8y ago

This almost sounds like one of those pranks Australians like to play on tourists.

idbehold 8y ago
Watch out for those drop bears. https://australianmuseum.net.au/drop-bear https://australianmuseum.net.au/drop-bear

ggm 8y ago

If it works don't knock it! Teaching young pups not to eat cane toads is pretty cool

scotty79 8y ago

> You want a bettong to watch its mate get eaten by a cat and think, ‘Oh, geez, cats are scary,’ Couldn't help but read the last part in Morty voice.

qubax 8y ago

Seems like pointless temporary exercise not even based in science. Even if you "teach" the current batch of rodents to be afraid of cats, how will their offspring be afraid of cats if they aren't naturally inclined to be fearful of predators? The way prey behavior is developed in nature is through evolution. In a batch of animals, there are mutations that cause a small portion of them to be naturally antsy, cautious and afraid. You could see this in litter of puppies. There are some who are very friendly, some that are neutral and some who stand back and are cautious. Same with rats and other rodents. When predators get introduced, the "friendly" ones get killed and the more cautious rodents get to breed, producing more and more cautious rodents over time. It's basic evolution. Of course with the introduction of human supported "super-predators" like cats doesn't give species time to "evolve". Isn't the simple and obvious solution here is to remove feral cats and other non-native predators? Or are feel-good but ineffective "predator boot camps" where preservation is at right now?

cf141q5325 8y ago
>Subsequent generations of the test group are also avoiding cats, which indicates parents are passing the relevant behaviors along to their offspring.
- erikig 8y ago
  Anyone know how these behaviors are passed on from parent to child?
  - moate 8y ago
    A genetic predisposition towards being afraid of predators. The assumption is that if you have 100 mice, and 50 of them show signs of being afraid of cats, then you breed those mice to produce another 100, noting the pairs that produced them. You can then see how many of the offspring are afraid of cats, and select that group to produce the next generation. Some of the fear of cats will be learned behavior, some of it will be instinct. It could also be that the ability to learn the behavior has genetic links (think naturally smart mice). If you keep this cycle going, eventually you have a group that should be higher than your initial 50% fear rate. It's possible that you can't selectively breed for this, but it's also possible that you can. This is in some ways the inverse of how humans domesticated many different species.
    - cimmanom 8y ago
      This experiment seems to have been too short-term to have influenced genetics significantly.
      - moate 8y ago
        You're correct, this was only done with a couple generations of animals. Unlikely to have been enough for cultivated development of the behavior genetically. This seems to be more of a "let's just traumatize the animals and hope they change their behavior as a result".
  - 8y ago

gruez 8y ago

shouldn't it be "prey boot camps"? they're training preys, not predators.

andygcook 8y ago

I’m curious if this is nurtured behavior or behavior devolped through an evolutionary process, or both. This reminds me of the fox domestication experiment in Siberia in the 40’s. Researchers bred foxes, kept all the ones that didn’t show as many signs of being afraid of humans, then subsequently bred those ones again (the rest were turned into furs to fund the research.) This process is kind of like that, but in reverse. Will say that these don’t seem to be truly domesticated bettongs, so not quite the same, but still interested. (edit - spelling)

cimmanom 8y ago
It looks like it was a short-term experiment (way shorter than the lifespan of a single individual). The actual paper indicates the "bootcamp" lasted 18 months. And they had a control with two pens, only one exposed to the predators.
trhway 8y ago
similar to that foxes experiment, i think instead of just teaching bettongs to fear they should have just selectively bred those bettongs who is naturally most fearful. Giving the short lifespan and that such selective breeding would take only a few generations, in several years they would have a population of bettongs genetically wired to fear the predators and thus much better fit for survival in the current conditions.

taneq 8y ago

Australian native animals are mostly pretty terrible at being animals. Possums and kangaroos are the only ones that are fairly effective.

meanonme 8y ago

Hey even animals need... training... that means. Oh bollocks. Is it one weekend where they cram too much material into 20 hours of class time or spread out over a week? Do they get practical certifications or just course credit?