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What do you think most people should use instead of k8s? Or is there not a good answer for that yet? Do you think containers themselves are overkill, or just k8

What do you think most people should use instead of k8s? Or is there not a good answer for that yet? Do you think containers themselves are overkill, or just k8s?

darren0 8y ago
Containers have a lot of value. My rule of thumb is basically use containers (docker) and as little as possible of anything else in the container ecosystem. So basically put your app in a container try to not change too much from however you currently do things. There is no shame in running --net=host or just doing "-v /mnt/someebsvolume:/data." I personally like Hashicorp because their tools are simple and grow with you. Besides Hashicorp, I don't have great recommendations for tools. In my opinion the current container ecosystem is a disaster for users. Big business ideas took over and killed innovation. Simple lightweight modular systems all got annihilated by Kubernetes and now it's pretty much a monoculture.
- samstave 8y ago
  Where can i read more about best practice regarding this while not getting to distracted or off in the wrong direction?
  - Serow225 8y ago
    I would also really love to learn the same.
- antpls 8y ago
  > Big business ideas took over and killed innovation. Simple lightweight modular systems all got annihilated by Kubernetes and now it's pretty much a monoculture. I don't work with K8S or even docker on a day-to-day basis, but to me the ecosystem looks rather good. There are several solutions of orchestration and containerization competing from different vendors, and things tend to be standardised to make them work together : - https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/contributors/devel/container-runtime-interface.md https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/contribu... - https://www.opencontainers.org/ https://www.opencontainers.org/ No later than yesterday there was that post on HN : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18050781 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18050781 People experiment, dissect, keep some old things, hack new things. K8S is still in active development, new initiatives like Istio and Knative are built on top of it. It looks like an healthy innovative ecosystem to me. I guess it depends of point of view and interests.
witten 8y ago
If you just need to "orchestrate" on a single box, Docker Compose (https://docs.docker.com/compose/ https://docs.docker.com/compose/) is the bees knees.
shareometry 8y ago
I still don't quite understand why Docker Swarm is so overlooked. It essentially offers easy-to-manage orchestration while providing most of the core features that many people are looking for. It even makes use of compose files, which many developers are already writing. Given that most of the complaints about Kubernetes relate to its complexity and the need for a Kubernetes "expert" to look after said complexity, I'm somewhat baffled by how many people just totally overlook Swarm as if it wasn't an option.
- ofrzeta 8y ago
  I think you are right but the fact that Docker Inc included Kubernetes surely didn't help Swarm adoption.
- justinclift 8y ago
  > I still don't quite understand why Docker Swarm is so overlooked. No IPv6 support in it at all, and the company seems to have moved resources internally away from Swarm development. Doesn't bode well for it's future. Expecting it'll be taken out to the back shed (-bang-) in a while.
  - ofrzeta 8y ago
    Check this GitHub issue on SwarmKit for more info: https://github.com/docker/swarmkit/issues/2665 https://github.com/docker/swarmkit/issues/2665
    - justinclift 8y ago
      Docker staff have been saying words to the effect of "we'll make an announcement with info soon!" for at least the last three+ months, across several projects. Swarm, Docker-Machine, & Infrakit come to mind. With no actual announcement(s) then occurring. The commit activity graph on InfraKit - which people are supposed to use now that Docker-Machine has been deprecated - seems pretty clear: https://github.com/docker/infrakit/graphs/contributors https://github.com/docker/infrakit/graphs/contributors SwarmKit is the same: https://github.com/docker/swarmkit/graphs/contributors https://github.com/docker/swarmkit/graphs/contributors Clearly these aren't where resources have been placed. Actions are not lining up with the words given. :(
matthewmacleod 8y ago
I have had a good experience using the Hashicorp stack of Nomad and Consul, integrated with nginx for load balancing. This stack doesn't offer all of the same functionality as the Kubernetes ecosystem, but it has the benefit of being vastly simpler and composed of relatively small, independent parts. We did examine Kubernetes, but for various reasons we need to manage our own cluster and the engineering overhead was too high for our team to take on.
- ngrilly 8y ago
  Why is Nomad & Consul simpler that Kubernetes?

What do you think most people should use instead of k8s? Or is there not a good answer for that yet? Do you think containers themselves are overkill, or just k8s?

darren0 8y ago

Containers have a lot of value. My rule of thumb is basically use containers (docker) and as little as possible of anything else in the container ecosystem. So basically put your app in a container try to not change too much from however you currently do things. There is no shame in running --net=host or just doing "-v /mnt/someebsvolume:/data." I personally like Hashicorp because their tools are simple and grow with you. Besides Hashicorp, I don't have great recommendations for tools. In my opinion the current container ecosystem is a disaster for users. Big business ideas took over and killed innovation. Simple lightweight modular systems all got annihilated by Kubernetes and now it's pretty much a monoculture.

samstave 8y ago
Where can i read more about best practice regarding this while not getting to distracted or off in the wrong direction?
- Serow225 8y ago
  I would also really love to learn the same.
antpls 8y ago
> Big business ideas took over and killed innovation. Simple lightweight modular systems all got annihilated by Kubernetes and now it's pretty much a monoculture. I don't work with K8S or even docker on a day-to-day basis, but to me the ecosystem looks rather good. There are several solutions of orchestration and containerization competing from different vendors, and things tend to be standardised to make them work together : - https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/contributors/devel/container-runtime-interface.md https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/contribu... - https://www.opencontainers.org/ https://www.opencontainers.org/ No later than yesterday there was that post on HN : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18050781 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18050781 People experiment, dissect, keep some old things, hack new things. K8S is still in active development, new initiatives like Istio and Knative are built on top of it. It looks like an healthy innovative ecosystem to me. I guess it depends of point of view and interests.

witten 8y ago

If you just need to "orchestrate" on a single box, Docker Compose (https://docs.docker.com/compose/ https://docs.docker.com/compose/) is the bees knees.

shareometry 8y ago

I still don't quite understand why Docker Swarm is so overlooked. It essentially offers easy-to-manage orchestration while providing most of the core features that many people are looking for. It even makes use of compose files, which many developers are already writing. Given that most of the complaints about Kubernetes relate to its complexity and the need for a Kubernetes "expert" to look after said complexity, I'm somewhat baffled by how many people just totally overlook Swarm as if it wasn't an option.

ofrzeta 8y ago
I think you are right but the fact that Docker Inc included Kubernetes surely didn't help Swarm adoption.
justinclift 8y ago
> I still don't quite understand why Docker Swarm is so overlooked. No IPv6 support in it at all, and the company seems to have moved resources internally away from Swarm development. Doesn't bode well for it's future. Expecting it'll be taken out to the back shed (-bang-) in a while.
- ofrzeta 8y ago
  Check this GitHub issue on SwarmKit for more info: https://github.com/docker/swarmkit/issues/2665 https://github.com/docker/swarmkit/issues/2665
  - justinclift 8y ago
    Docker staff have been saying words to the effect of "we'll make an announcement with info soon!" for at least the last three+ months, across several projects. Swarm, Docker-Machine, & Infrakit come to mind. With no actual announcement(s) then occurring. The commit activity graph on InfraKit - which people are supposed to use now that Docker-Machine has been deprecated - seems pretty clear: https://github.com/docker/infrakit/graphs/contributors https://github.com/docker/infrakit/graphs/contributors SwarmKit is the same: https://github.com/docker/swarmkit/graphs/contributors https://github.com/docker/swarmkit/graphs/contributors Clearly these aren't where resources have been placed. Actions are not lining up with the words given. :(

matthewmacleod 8y ago

I have had a good experience using the Hashicorp stack of Nomad and Consul, integrated with nginx for load balancing. This stack doesn't offer all of the same functionality as the Kubernetes ecosystem, but it has the benefit of being vastly simpler and composed of relatively small, independent parts. We did examine Kubernetes, but for various reasons we need to manage our own cluster and the engineering overhead was too high for our team to take on.

ngrilly 8y ago
Why is Nomad & Consul simpler that Kubernetes?