> The lack of accountability is my complaint. If you tell any employee that no matter what they do, their job is protected, you'll find them laughing at you wh

> The lack of accountability is my complaint. If you tell any employee that no matter what they do, their job is protected, you'll find them laughing at you when you assign them a task. Well, you attribute this directly to Unions... so maybe there is a different kind of union that exists in a country with more social services that doesn't cause this. And that might explain the JAL. But like I said, Unions often have formal processes for people who aren't doing their work. Now, for folks who simply aren't doing a good job, you have to have an opinion about what must be done. > I live in this environment and I see daily tasks that take minutes take hours to get done. Bigger projects which takes weeks or months get dragged all the time I mean, I've worked at big non-union companies and I feel like I saw exactly that phenomenon as well. Perhaps that's more a feature of ineffective organizations? > People still get paid and there are no consequences if objectives are not met. ... the magnitude of impact the union attitude has on work environment and productivity is considerably high. Personally (perhaps I'm naive here?) I think if an organization that can't align and inform performance incentives with its workforce, be they union or not, is the result of a workplace and senior management problem. I know bad apple employees do exist, and they can be painful to work with and around. But I just have a hard time believing that it's a significant enough fraction to actually tank the company with no recourse. > I definitely am a big fan of Tesla and love the way they do things, they have grossly underestimated the complexity of building a car. I agree, but I think it's more that they don't get how to make good processes and align these over a large workforce, and a failure properly incentivize the workforce. When they were at a more artistic scale and the roadster's first-run bugs were worked out, they made fantastic cars for the most part.