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Not everyone thinks authoritarianism is morally wrong. They already abet plenty of other things that some people find morally wrong, like enforcing IP law, cens

Not everyone thinks authoritarianism is morally wrong. They already abet plenty of other things that some people find morally wrong, like enforcing IP law, censoring all kinds of information, cooperating with police investigations, etc, some of which you can already spin as authoritarian.

bogomipz 8y ago
>"Not everyone thinks authoritarianism is morally wrong" The people who don't find authoritarianism morally wrong are generally elites who enjoy privilege on account of their being ranking members of that authoritarian regime. Can you provide any examples of a 21st century authoritarian regimes where this hasn't been true? Mugabe? Bouteflika? Quaddafi? Assad? I don't think so.
- slavik81 8y ago
  Rodrigo Duterte. Strongmen often enjoy broad popular support. They get things done. Mussolini made the trains run on time. A cult of personality is how an authoritarian leader defends themselves from being overthrown by other members of their regime. They ensure that they are associated with all the good that their government does, while deflecting blame for the bad towards scapegoats. Worrying about fairness or the rule of law is a luxury. A lot of people just see a weak and ineffectual government replaced with one that actually does something for them and they don't care how it was achieved. I wish you were right. It would be much easier to defend against authoritarians if they were unpopular.
  - bogomipz 8y ago
    Duterte was democratically elected. He will be stepping down in 2022 and has already been voicing his support for Ferdinand Marcos Jr. >"Strongmen often enjoy broad popular support." "Strongman" is not even a real political term its a media term invented in the US media and first applied to General Noriega of Panama. The term doesn't even necessarily apply to official the head of state as was the case with Noriega. >"Mussolini made the trains run on time." No this is not actually true. See: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/loco-motive/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/loco-motive/ And my question was regarding authoritarian regimes of the 21st century. The rise of Mussolini was very much tied the consequences of World War 1 on Italy.
    - slavik81 8y ago
      > Duterte was democratically elected. Yes. That's why I mentioned him. He is a legitimately popular politician with a strong authoritarian streak. If I wanted to give you other examples of authoritarians, I would have suggested Hugo Chavez, Vladimir Putin, and Recep Tayyip Erdogan. They've all had their ups and downs in popularity, but mostly based on economic conditions. China would have been the most relevant example to use, but it's more difficult to prove popularity without elections. Still, both official approval ratings[1] and anecdotal discussions[2] suggest that the government is particularly popular among those in rural areas who have seen rapid modernization. [1]: https://www.economist.com/china/2015/04/11/the-critical-masses https://www.economist.com/china/2015/04/11/the-critical-mass... [2]: https://www.quora.com/In-general-how-popular-are-the-Communist-Party-and-the-Chinese-government-to-the-ordinary-citizen-of-China https://www.quora.com/In-general-how-popular-are-the-Communi...
- 794CD01 8y ago
  Examples of what not being true? You jumped from "people" to "regimes" between paragraphs but the transition wasn't complete. If you are looking for examples of people who aren't part of an authoritarian regime but still think it's not a fundamentally immoral system, just take myself. If you are looking for authoritarian regimes that satisfy some quality, I can't tell what quality you're referring to.

bogomipz 8y ago

>"Not everyone thinks authoritarianism is morally wrong" The people who don't find authoritarianism morally wrong are generally elites who enjoy privilege on account of their being ranking members of that authoritarian regime. Can you provide any examples of a 21st century authoritarian regimes where this hasn't been true? Mugabe? Bouteflika? Quaddafi? Assad? I don't think so.

slavik81 8y ago
Rodrigo Duterte. Strongmen often enjoy broad popular support. They get things done. Mussolini made the trains run on time. A cult of personality is how an authoritarian leader defends themselves from being overthrown by other members of their regime. They ensure that they are associated with all the good that their government does, while deflecting blame for the bad towards scapegoats. Worrying about fairness or the rule of law is a luxury. A lot of people just see a weak and ineffectual government replaced with one that actually does something for them and they don't care how it was achieved. I wish you were right. It would be much easier to defend against authoritarians if they were unpopular.
- bogomipz 8y ago
  Duterte was democratically elected. He will be stepping down in 2022 and has already been voicing his support for Ferdinand Marcos Jr. >"Strongmen often enjoy broad popular support." "Strongman" is not even a real political term its a media term invented in the US media and first applied to General Noriega of Panama. The term doesn't even necessarily apply to official the head of state as was the case with Noriega. >"Mussolini made the trains run on time." No this is not actually true. See: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/loco-motive/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/loco-motive/ And my question was regarding authoritarian regimes of the 21st century. The rise of Mussolini was very much tied the consequences of World War 1 on Italy.
  - slavik81 8y ago
    > Duterte was democratically elected. Yes. That's why I mentioned him. He is a legitimately popular politician with a strong authoritarian streak. If I wanted to give you other examples of authoritarians, I would have suggested Hugo Chavez, Vladimir Putin, and Recep Tayyip Erdogan. They've all had their ups and downs in popularity, but mostly based on economic conditions. China would have been the most relevant example to use, but it's more difficult to prove popularity without elections. Still, both official approval ratings[1] and anecdotal discussions[2] suggest that the government is particularly popular among those in rural areas who have seen rapid modernization. [1]: https://www.economist.com/china/2015/04/11/the-critical-masses https://www.economist.com/china/2015/04/11/the-critical-mass... [2]: https://www.quora.com/In-general-how-popular-are-the-Communist-Party-and-the-Chinese-government-to-the-ordinary-citizen-of-China https://www.quora.com/In-general-how-popular-are-the-Communi...
794CD01 8y ago
Examples of what not being true? You jumped from "people" to "regimes" between paragraphs but the transition wasn't complete. If you are looking for examples of people who aren't part of an authoritarian regime but still think it's not a fundamentally immoral system, just take myself. If you are looking for authoritarian regimes that satisfy some quality, I can't tell what quality you're referring to.