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I'm not sure that Facebook using Instagram as a way to funnel people back to Facebook is a great strategy. Companies need to be willing to cannibalize themselve

I'm not sure that Facebook using Instagram as a way to funnel people back to Facebook is a great strategy. Companies need to be willing to cannibalize themselves or someone will do it for them. I don't know if Zuck had the foresight at the time, but Instagram has obviously been an amazing hedge against apps like Snapchat. People like Instagram and Snapchat partly because they are less formal than Facebook, most users don't even know that Facebook owns Instagram, my girlfriend is always shocked (and a bit annoyed) when I tell her. I think it'd be smart to simply enhance Instagram's ad platform and be willing to cede Facebook MAU over to Instagram, at the end of the day the dollars all go to the same account. If people start to become dissatisfied w/ Instagram because of "Facebook-ification" that may open up a market for a new competitor.

java_script 8y ago
> my girlfriend is always shocked (and a bit annoyed) when I tell her. Is this is a 50 First Dates type of situation?
- etatoby 8y ago
  It's more likely to be such an insignificant (if annoying) detail to common people that they easily forget about it in less than a day.
da02 8y ago
That sounds intriguing. What is she annoyed? What apps (social media, news, or entertainment) are popular with her and her friends? I'm surprised why something better hasn't come along than FB.
- 40acres 8y ago
  I don't use Facebook so I can't vouch based on my own usage, but based on conversations w/ her she's been dissatisfied with Facebook for quite some time. She still checks it every day (this is the power of Facebook) but feels compelled to because it's the best way to discover events. I'd bet she spends more time on Instagram but Facebook is right up there. Other than that she uses Group Me, which is basically a big chatroom app, it can get overwhelming though and from what I know she's muted the chats.
- randycupertino 8y ago
  Probably the same reason people were annoyed when they found out the delicious new indie beer they liked called Blue Moon was actually owned by Coors.
  - barkingcat 8y ago
    Or that delicious small batch whiskey maker is actually owned by Diageo, a mega corp with annual earnings of 12 billion pounds
victor106 8y ago
"Companies need to be willing to cannibalize themselves or someone will do it for them." --> This. exactly what Steve Jobs said when the iPhone was launched and there were questions about if the iPhone would cannibalize the iPod.
- aetherson 8y ago
  "Oh no, a more expensive, higher-margin product that we own will cannibalize a less expensive, lower-margin product that we own." -- nobody ever This kind of "cannibalization" is a modest tactical concern about the details of your financial forecast. If someone cannibalizes their more expensive, higher-margin products with a less expensive, lower-margin product, strategically and intentionally as part of a big plan, then quote them as a visionary.
  - hrktb 8y ago
    They cannibalized their Mac Pro to the point it was going to disappear. I genuinely think Apple cares more about competition and middle/long term revenue than artificially keeping alive high margin products.
    - aetherson 8y ago
      That'd be more convincing if they had any really dynamic, powerful product lines within Mac. Given how many Mac skus are in danger of disappearing, it looks a lot more like neglect for a company that makes like 95% of its revenue through iOS and basically keeps Macs alive as a dev tool for iOS.
      - hrktb 8y ago
        Isn't that part of the cannibalisation ? For instance their push for the iPad Pro killed a lot of their own desktop sales I think. It's often overlooked because the iPad is not squarely a desktop replacement, and compared to the iPhone it's small potatoes. But it still sells a ton more than the Mac.
  - 8y ago
denzil_correa 8y ago
> I don't know if Zuck had the foresight at the time, but Instagram has obviously been an amazing hedge against apps like Snapchat. I wish all of us have the "foresight" to give away a "free" data-security VPN app to "protect" browsing and keep the user "safe". You can then surreptitiously use the traffic to for competitor intelligence and buy them off [0]. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebooks-onavo-gives-social-media-firm-inside-peek-at-rivals-users-1502622003 https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebooks-onavo-gives-social-me...
- zamber 8y ago
  When they bought Onavo I didin't see that coming. Thought they wanted to assimilate it with the brand in some way. Thanks for the insight.
  - cjhopman 8y ago
    Really? That surprises me considering that Onavo was doing that well before Facebook bought them: https://techcrunch.com/2013/02/08/onavo-insights/ https://techcrunch.com/2013/02/08/onavo-insights/
    - zamber 8y ago
      I came from the context of data compression apps (worked on one). Before the Onavo acquisition FBs internet.org was on full blast. Made sense FB would want to incorporate compression with it. Looks like it was just a smoke screen. Onavlo from the get-go looked like a data harvesting operation though. The app was clunky at best, the compression lacking.
meme-youyou 8y ago
You dont want to cannibalize your own product if you might have to spin-off the product due to antitrust concerns.
drb91 8y ago
> I'm not sure that Facebook using Instagram as a way to funnel people back to Facebook is a great strategy Nit, this strategy seems to have failed—alternatively they’re just changing instagram to be more like facebook (ads, no timeline control, messaging and stories).
eksemplar 8y ago
I saw some usage data in a quartz article, that I can’t find, earlier this week. Facebook was the most popular social media platform across teenagers, millennials, generation x and baby boomers. The real interesting data was in teenagers though, their most popular platform is Snapchat, but none of the platforms had managed to make more than 40% of teenagers create an account with them. I think this is interesting because it shows that Facebook isn’t really sucking that much worse than Instagram and that Instagram isn’t going to save Facebook on its own. From a more anecdotal perspective, I think the integration was smart. I’m not very active on social media, but I do use Facebook to arrange events with my friends that live in multiple cities. Because I see people sharing Instagram posts on Facebook through the integration, I’ve considered creating an account. Of course I’ve also considered leaving the platform because Facebook keeps doing the wrong thing.
- jjeaff 8y ago
  I'm guessing that data was based on simply having an account? Because I feel like teenagers all have a Facebook account, but few actually use it with any frequency.
  - eksemplar 8y ago
    It was, twitter, Instagram and Facebook were lower than 30% and Snapchat was around 40%. For teenagers. For millennials Facebook was above 80% with Instagram and Snapchat sitting above 60% and twitter somewhat lower. I mean, having an account isn’t as interesting than usage, but when less than 30% of teenagers have an account, they probably aren’t using it a whole lot. I wonder where they went though, the article didn’t say anything about that. Discord maybe?
- tsenkov 8y ago
  > I think this is interesting because it shows that Facebook isn’t really sucking that much worse than Instagram and that Instagram isn’t going to save Facebook on its own. I think this is a stellar observation. Fb, right now, is only a dominant force for users of age 30+ and the battle for the next generation(s) is just starting out. Instagram does show the most significant growth but isn't a clear winner, yet.
relyio 8y ago
>'m not sure that Facebook using Instagram as a way to funnel people back to Facebook is a great strategy It's a stupid strategy. All my friends (early 20s) are hardly active on Facebook, if at all and instead prefer the likes of Instagram and Snapchat for a simple reason: you can actually share your life with your friends and see theirs. Speaking for myself, I hardly care about my Facebook account. My feed is plastered with garbage content and tired memes. I understand why they made the shift to being a content-consumption platform but it seem very short-sighted given that the content is low-quality, redundant, and seriously getting boring now. I wager that people, like myself, are looking for an actual online social network. That's why I like Instagram, I can actually see videos and photos of my friends, whether it is celebrating their birthday, sightseeing, dancing at a party, or simply going through the grind of everyday life. Not being a product-visionary, I cannot tell what drives Facebook to adopt this strategy but I find it puzzling that they could fail to understand that my demographic is leaving Facebook (in terms of engagement) because it is hardly social anymore. In fact, it is more akin to a worse 9Gag/Reddit/Buzzfeed mashup, with the occasional aunt or elderly family friend sharing some obscure article using CAPS LOCK. I don't remember seeing anyone I know publish a status or a photo album in the past... what, three or four years? > think it'd be smart to simply enhance Instagram's ad platform The amount of ads has exploded over the past few months, it has made the product far less enjoyable for me. I don't mind ads but it bother me that they disguise it as content in your feed. >If people start to become dissatisfied w/ Instagram because of "Facebook-ification" that may open up a market for a new competitor. I think Snapchat would be in a nice position to take-over. I do prefer Instagram over it, but at this point I'm just desperate for a platform that doesn't sucks or isn't headed that path.
- rconti 8y ago
  This comment seems to be all about your network. Just because your network on IG is different from your network on FB doesn't mean that the platform is fundamentally different. I'm ~15 years older than you, and was in college when FB came out. Hence, almost all of my friend are on FB. On FB, I regularly see photo albums and status updates. I enjoy IG, but I see just as many obnoxious posts with 20 lines of . . . . . . . so a boring post can contain 30 lines before 500 hashtags you don't care about and will never click on. And I will never want to watch a video on FB or on IG, so the platform doesn't matter. If anything, it sounds like a more common usage of IG is to follow "influencers" which is code for "people you don't care about". Again, garbage in, garbage out. It sounds like you've followed crappy people on FB, and that colors your view of the platform. The same way I've never been able to make Twitter work for me. It's not always about the platform.
joycian 8y ago
> my girlfriend is always shocked (and a bit annoyed) when I tell her. I think it is remarkable that this experiment was repeatable. Zuckerberg has hit upon an amazing strategy in a world where almost no one cares where the money goes: when a platform is dying, buy a new one relatively quietly, ferry customers over to the new platform. Rinse, repeat.
nojvek 8y ago
Facebook is Zuck’s baby. He has spent years working day and night to build it. Instagram and WhatsApp are the adopted children. Children that would otherwise eat his baby’s lunch. Ceding to instagram would mean to acknowledge that Facebook has failed. Their stock ticker says FB. The hordes of employees working 100 hour weeks with million dollar RSUs would feel like the Facebook isn’t king anymore. They can’t be drunk on the kool-aid anymore?
- _pmf_ 8y ago
  Agreed. That's something they'll have to learn. Media empires have no problem presenting a different face and pushing different political views via different outlets. Full assimilation of the Instagram brand has negligible benefits and severe risks.
fipple 8y ago
It is a great strategy because a user scrolling Facebook for one hour generates more ad revenue than a user scrolling Instagram for three hours
fierro 8y ago
imagine being shocked to discover something you already knew

java_script 8y ago

> my girlfriend is always shocked (and a bit annoyed) when I tell her. Is this is a 50 First Dates type of situation?

etatoby 8y ago
It's more likely to be such an insignificant (if annoying) detail to common people that they easily forget about it in less than a day.

da02 8y ago

That sounds intriguing. What is she annoyed? What apps (social media, news, or entertainment) are popular with her and her friends? I'm surprised why something better hasn't come along than FB.

40acres 8y ago
I don't use Facebook so I can't vouch based on my own usage, but based on conversations w/ her she's been dissatisfied with Facebook for quite some time. She still checks it every day (this is the power of Facebook) but feels compelled to because it's the best way to discover events. I'd bet she spends more time on Instagram but Facebook is right up there. Other than that she uses Group Me, which is basically a big chatroom app, it can get overwhelming though and from what I know she's muted the chats.
randycupertino 8y ago
Probably the same reason people were annoyed when they found out the delicious new indie beer they liked called Blue Moon was actually owned by Coors.
- barkingcat 8y ago
  Or that delicious small batch whiskey maker is actually owned by Diageo, a mega corp with annual earnings of 12 billion pounds

victor106 8y ago

"Companies need to be willing to cannibalize themselves or someone will do it for them." --> This. exactly what Steve Jobs said when the iPhone was launched and there were questions about if the iPhone would cannibalize the iPod.

aetherson 8y ago
"Oh no, a more expensive, higher-margin product that we own will cannibalize a less expensive, lower-margin product that we own." -- nobody ever This kind of "cannibalization" is a modest tactical concern about the details of your financial forecast. If someone cannibalizes their more expensive, higher-margin products with a less expensive, lower-margin product, strategically and intentionally as part of a big plan, then quote them as a visionary.
- hrktb 8y ago
  They cannibalized their Mac Pro to the point it was going to disappear. I genuinely think Apple cares more about competition and middle/long term revenue than artificially keeping alive high margin products.
  - aetherson 8y ago
    That'd be more convincing if they had any really dynamic, powerful product lines within Mac. Given how many Mac skus are in danger of disappearing, it looks a lot more like neglect for a company that makes like 95% of its revenue through iOS and basically keeps Macs alive as a dev tool for iOS.
    - hrktb 8y ago
      Isn't that part of the cannibalisation ? For instance their push for the iPad Pro killed a lot of their own desktop sales I think. It's often overlooked because the iPad is not squarely a desktop replacement, and compared to the iPhone it's small potatoes. But it still sells a ton more than the Mac.
- 8y ago

denzil_correa 8y ago

> I don't know if Zuck had the foresight at the time, but Instagram has obviously been an amazing hedge against apps like Snapchat. I wish all of us have the "foresight" to give away a "free" data-security VPN app to "protect" browsing and keep the user "safe". You can then surreptitiously use the traffic to for competitor intelligence and buy them off [0]. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebooks-onavo-gives-social-media-firm-inside-peek-at-rivals-users-1502622003 https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebooks-onavo-gives-social-me...

zamber 8y ago
When they bought Onavo I didin't see that coming. Thought they wanted to assimilate it with the brand in some way. Thanks for the insight.
- cjhopman 8y ago
  Really? That surprises me considering that Onavo was doing that well before Facebook bought them: https://techcrunch.com/2013/02/08/onavo-insights/ https://techcrunch.com/2013/02/08/onavo-insights/
  - zamber 8y ago
    I came from the context of data compression apps (worked on one). Before the Onavo acquisition FBs internet.org was on full blast. Made sense FB would want to incorporate compression with it. Looks like it was just a smoke screen. Onavlo from the get-go looked like a data harvesting operation though. The app was clunky at best, the compression lacking.

meme-youyou 8y ago

You dont want to cannibalize your own product if you might have to spin-off the product due to antitrust concerns.

drb91 8y ago

> I'm not sure that Facebook using Instagram as a way to funnel people back to Facebook is a great strategy Nit, this strategy seems to have failed—alternatively they’re just changing instagram to be more like facebook (ads, no timeline control, messaging and stories).

eksemplar 8y ago

I saw some usage data in a quartz article, that I can’t find, earlier this week. Facebook was the most popular social media platform across teenagers, millennials, generation x and baby boomers. The real interesting data was in teenagers though, their most popular platform is Snapchat, but none of the platforms had managed to make more than 40% of teenagers create an account with them. I think this is interesting because it shows that Facebook isn’t really sucking that much worse than Instagram and that Instagram isn’t going to save Facebook on its own. From a more anecdotal perspective, I think the integration was smart. I’m not very active on social media, but I do use Facebook to arrange events with my friends that live in multiple cities. Because I see people sharing Instagram posts on Facebook through the integration, I’ve considered creating an account. Of course I’ve also considered leaving the platform because Facebook keeps doing the wrong thing.

jjeaff 8y ago
I'm guessing that data was based on simply having an account? Because I feel like teenagers all have a Facebook account, but few actually use it with any frequency.
- eksemplar 8y ago
  It was, twitter, Instagram and Facebook were lower than 30% and Snapchat was around 40%. For teenagers. For millennials Facebook was above 80% with Instagram and Snapchat sitting above 60% and twitter somewhat lower. I mean, having an account isn’t as interesting than usage, but when less than 30% of teenagers have an account, they probably aren’t using it a whole lot. I wonder where they went though, the article didn’t say anything about that. Discord maybe?
tsenkov 8y ago
> I think this is interesting because it shows that Facebook isn’t really sucking that much worse than Instagram and that Instagram isn’t going to save Facebook on its own. I think this is a stellar observation. Fb, right now, is only a dominant force for users of age 30+ and the battle for the next generation(s) is just starting out. Instagram does show the most significant growth but isn't a clear winner, yet.

relyio 8y ago

>'m not sure that Facebook using Instagram as a way to funnel people back to Facebook is a great strategy It's a stupid strategy. All my friends (early 20s) are hardly active on Facebook, if at all and instead prefer the likes of Instagram and Snapchat for a simple reason: you can actually share your life with your friends and see theirs. Speaking for myself, I hardly care about my Facebook account. My feed is plastered with garbage content and tired memes. I understand why they made the shift to being a content-consumption platform but it seem very short-sighted given that the content is low-quality, redundant, and seriously getting boring now. I wager that people, like myself, are looking for an actual online social network. That's why I like Instagram, I can actually see videos and photos of my friends, whether it is celebrating their birthday, sightseeing, dancing at a party, or simply going through the grind of everyday life. Not being a product-visionary, I cannot tell what drives Facebook to adopt this strategy but I find it puzzling that they could fail to understand that my demographic is leaving Facebook (in terms of engagement) because it is hardly social anymore. In fact, it is more akin to a worse 9Gag/Reddit/Buzzfeed mashup, with the occasional aunt or elderly family friend sharing some obscure article using CAPS LOCK. I don't remember seeing anyone I know publish a status or a photo album in the past... what, three or four years? > think it'd be smart to simply enhance Instagram's ad platform The amount of ads has exploded over the past few months, it has made the product far less enjoyable for me. I don't mind ads but it bother me that they disguise it as content in your feed. >If people start to become dissatisfied w/ Instagram because of "Facebook-ification" that may open up a market for a new competitor. I think Snapchat would be in a nice position to take-over. I do prefer Instagram over it, but at this point I'm just desperate for a platform that doesn't sucks or isn't headed that path.

rconti 8y ago
This comment seems to be all about your network. Just because your network on IG is different from your network on FB doesn't mean that the platform is fundamentally different. I'm ~15 years older than you, and was in college when FB came out. Hence, almost all of my friend are on FB. On FB, I regularly see photo albums and status updates. I enjoy IG, but I see just as many obnoxious posts with 20 lines of . . . . . . . so a boring post can contain 30 lines before 500 hashtags you don't care about and will never click on. And I will never want to watch a video on FB or on IG, so the platform doesn't matter. If anything, it sounds like a more common usage of IG is to follow "influencers" which is code for "people you don't care about". Again, garbage in, garbage out. It sounds like you've followed crappy people on FB, and that colors your view of the platform. The same way I've never been able to make Twitter work for me. It's not always about the platform.

joycian 8y ago

> my girlfriend is always shocked (and a bit annoyed) when I tell her. I think it is remarkable that this experiment was repeatable. Zuckerberg has hit upon an amazing strategy in a world where almost no one cares where the money goes: when a platform is dying, buy a new one relatively quietly, ferry customers over to the new platform. Rinse, repeat.

nojvek 8y ago

Facebook is Zuck’s baby. He has spent years working day and night to build it. Instagram and WhatsApp are the adopted children. Children that would otherwise eat his baby’s lunch. Ceding to instagram would mean to acknowledge that Facebook has failed. Their stock ticker says FB. The hordes of employees working 100 hour weeks with million dollar RSUs would feel like the Facebook isn’t king anymore. They can’t be drunk on the kool-aid anymore?

_pmf_ 8y ago
Agreed. That's something they'll have to learn. Media empires have no problem presenting a different face and pushing different political views via different outlets. Full assimilation of the Instagram brand has negligible benefits and severe risks.

fipple 8y ago

It is a great strategy because a user scrolling Facebook for one hour generates more ad revenue than a user scrolling Instagram for three hours

fierro 8y ago

imagine being shocked to discover something you already knew