5 ms·

Interesting, yeah I can see it. I bet they thought it would work from both angles. Westerners will feel sorry for exposing the gay tourists and Russians will fe

by rdtsc 8y ago

Interesting, yeah I can see it. I bet they thought it would work from both angles. Westerners will feel sorry for exposing the gay tourists and Russians will feel convinced they can't be GRU officers.

trhway 8y ago
>Russians will feel convinced they can't be GRU officers Russian internet has a field day(or a month already really) of jokes that the GRU officers, which all are undoubtedly, in the Russian mythos, true patriots and heterosexual macho made in the image of the Putin himself, would carry out every order for the Motherland - to kill a traitor, to die for the Motherland, and even to truly practice homosexuality, all in the name of Motherland on the orders of "the comrade General". The guys in the interview are obviously very bad at impersonating gays, and that follows pretty much the same outrageous "signature" style (the Russian saying is "sewn together using white thread" as it is very noticeable on any garments except white) as using "Novichok" and polonium (or assassinating major opposition leader right in front of the Putin's office windows) - all that is to make sure that there are no doubts about who really did it while of course officially denying any responsibility. Just like the signature killings by Mafia (which the Russian government in its nature really is) - everybody has to clearly understand who did it without the perpetrators and their bosses explicitly claiming it. To the "the_grue" below - sorry, man, no offense, you just don't understand what you're talking about. Most probably you're just not a Russian. Edit: you added that you speak Russian. Being a Russian and speak Russian are 2 very different things. That ridicule you see on the Internet is real, no doubts. What you don't get is that it doesn't make Putin ridiculous [deep] in the eyes of the populace and that it wasn't a failure [deep] in the eyes of that populace - and that is the main tragedy of Russia.
- the_grue 8y ago
  I don't buy it. This whole story makes GRU and, by extension, Putin himself look ridiculous in the eyes of their own populace. Russian-speaking Internet communities are savoring this failure in every conceivable way right now, ridiculing Putin and the Russian propaganda. And that's a major failure for Putin's regime, which is built on nationalism, on a promise of greatness, on claiming that Russia is a major world power, etc.
  - cuboidGoat 8y ago
    It makes them look like they do not care about putting on a good show, because they do not feel they need to and they find it funnier to present an obvious circus. It also might be doubling as a public punishment for the spies for being sloppy. Putting them on TV like that is directly telling them that their careers are over. If lucky, they might be transformed into celebrities, just for the annoyance value to the UK. Is the international politics equivalent of telling someone to stop hitting themselves, after grabbing their wrist and whacking them in the face with their own hand.
    - the_grue 8y ago
      That would be way too subtle for the common folk. Whatever GRU's plan was, in reality most Russian people just take it at face value: Russian spies got exposed, Putin's lie got exposed, the spies put on a miserable show on TV, and now even their true identities have been exposed (only one so far, but I expect the other one to be exposed soon, too). That's a failure. I'm pretty sure you're reading way too much into it because you've been told Putin (and, by extension, his subordinates) was a great tactician one step ahead of everyone else. I never believed it and I don't believe it now.
      - cuboidGoat 8y ago
        >That would be way too subtle for the common folk. Are you channeling H. L. Menken? I think Putin is a comedian and two things I have noticed about Russian humour are firstly, always be deadpanning, and secondly, it isn't really funny unless someone ends up nearly dead. I also think he is a good tactician but a lousy strategist and I don't think he is in charge of as much of the CCCP as is made out. He is the front man for a conglomerate of interests, many of which operate largely autonomously, and would cause him no end of internal problems should he try and reign them in. This explains the sharp disconnect between the relative professionalism in the seizing of Crimea, while at the same time lending out SAM systems to idiots. I'd also say there is a very good chance that Putin did not order this operation in the first place and is playing cleanup. --- edit - I think there could also be a lot of "Will nobody rid me of this troublesome priest?" going on. It not being directly ordered is an alternative reason why someone so high up was doing this rather than a subordinate. This could well have been showing off to curry favour, knowing that the target was in the regime's bad books already. Being paraded on TV in the manner that they were after being uncovered, I think lends weight to this hypothesis.
- the_grue 8y ago
  I do speak Russian and I do know what I'm talking about. Я говорю по-русски и прекрасно знаю, о чем речь.
- the_grue 8y ago
  It's a little weird to keep talking to your edits. How come Putin is being ridiculed and it doesn't make him ridiculous in the eyes of the populace? I mean of course not all the populace is on the Internet and not all of them are reading the same stuff I'm reading, but still, many, many people are exposed to the ridicule, which means that Putin has lost this battle of hearts and minds as far as those people exposed are concerned.
  - akiselev 8y ago
    Just like any other country, Russia has several distinct information silos. The older population (like the vast majority of my family) are largely still stuck to the TV and old media for their news, which is tightly controlled by the state. The younger population is on the internet and until recently, the government had been largely hands off with online censorship. We see the loud online group that grew up after the 90s shitshow but not the rest of the population, which has far more influence and institutional power (for what it's worth). They are far more likely to support Putin for getting the country through that ordeal.
- dang 8y ago
  Please reply to the comment you're replying to by clicking 'reply'. It's not fair to continue the conversation from a perch at the top of the thread. How is the other person supposed to respond, or the reader to follow? Threaded comments solve this problem; please use them.

by rdtsc 8y ago

trhway 8y ago

>Russians will feel convinced they can't be GRU officers Russian internet has a field day(or a month already really) of jokes that the GRU officers, which all are undoubtedly, in the Russian mythos, true patriots and heterosexual macho made in the image of the Putin himself, would carry out every order for the Motherland - to kill a traitor, to die for the Motherland, and even to truly practice homosexuality, all in the name of Motherland on the orders of "the comrade General". The guys in the interview are obviously very bad at impersonating gays, and that follows pretty much the same outrageous "signature" style (the Russian saying is "sewn together using white thread" as it is very noticeable on any garments except white) as using "Novichok" and polonium (or assassinating major opposition leader right in front of the Putin's office windows) - all that is to make sure that there are no doubts about who really did it while of course officially denying any responsibility. Just like the signature killings by Mafia (which the Russian government in its nature really is) - everybody has to clearly understand who did it without the perpetrators and their bosses explicitly claiming it. To the "the_grue" below - sorry, man, no offense, you just don't understand what you're talking about. Most probably you're just not a Russian. Edit: you added that you speak Russian. Being a Russian and speak Russian are 2 very different things. That ridicule you see on the Internet is real, no doubts. What you don't get is that it doesn't make Putin ridiculous [deep] in the eyes of the populace and that it wasn't a failure [deep] in the eyes of that populace - and that is the main tragedy of Russia.

the_grue 8y ago
I don't buy it. This whole story makes GRU and, by extension, Putin himself look ridiculous in the eyes of their own populace. Russian-speaking Internet communities are savoring this failure in every conceivable way right now, ridiculing Putin and the Russian propaganda. And that's a major failure for Putin's regime, which is built on nationalism, on a promise of greatness, on claiming that Russia is a major world power, etc.
- cuboidGoat 8y ago
  It makes them look like they do not care about putting on a good show, because they do not feel they need to and they find it funnier to present an obvious circus. It also might be doubling as a public punishment for the spies for being sloppy. Putting them on TV like that is directly telling them that their careers are over. If lucky, they might be transformed into celebrities, just for the annoyance value to the UK. Is the international politics equivalent of telling someone to stop hitting themselves, after grabbing their wrist and whacking them in the face with their own hand.
  - the_grue 8y ago
    That would be way too subtle for the common folk. Whatever GRU's plan was, in reality most Russian people just take it at face value: Russian spies got exposed, Putin's lie got exposed, the spies put on a miserable show on TV, and now even their true identities have been exposed (only one so far, but I expect the other one to be exposed soon, too). That's a failure. I'm pretty sure you're reading way too much into it because you've been told Putin (and, by extension, his subordinates) was a great tactician one step ahead of everyone else. I never believed it and I don't believe it now.
    - cuboidGoat 8y ago
      >That would be way too subtle for the common folk. Are you channeling H. L. Menken? I think Putin is a comedian and two things I have noticed about Russian humour are firstly, always be deadpanning, and secondly, it isn't really funny unless someone ends up nearly dead. I also think he is a good tactician but a lousy strategist and I don't think he is in charge of as much of the CCCP as is made out. He is the front man for a conglomerate of interests, many of which operate largely autonomously, and would cause him no end of internal problems should he try and reign them in. This explains the sharp disconnect between the relative professionalism in the seizing of Crimea, while at the same time lending out SAM systems to idiots. I'd also say there is a very good chance that Putin did not order this operation in the first place and is playing cleanup. --- edit - I think there could also be a lot of "Will nobody rid me of this troublesome priest?" going on. It not being directly ordered is an alternative reason why someone so high up was doing this rather than a subordinate. This could well have been showing off to curry favour, knowing that the target was in the regime's bad books already. Being paraded on TV in the manner that they were after being uncovered, I think lends weight to this hypothesis.
the_grue 8y ago
I do speak Russian and I do know what I'm talking about. Я говорю по-русски и прекрасно знаю, о чем речь.
the_grue 8y ago
It's a little weird to keep talking to your edits. How come Putin is being ridiculed and it doesn't make him ridiculous in the eyes of the populace? I mean of course not all the populace is on the Internet and not all of them are reading the same stuff I'm reading, but still, many, many people are exposed to the ridicule, which means that Putin has lost this battle of hearts and minds as far as those people exposed are concerned.
- akiselev 8y ago
  Just like any other country, Russia has several distinct information silos. The older population (like the vast majority of my family) are largely still stuck to the TV and old media for their news, which is tightly controlled by the state. The younger population is on the internet and until recently, the government had been largely hands off with online censorship. We see the loud online group that grew up after the 90s shitshow but not the rest of the population, which has far more influence and institutional power (for what it's worth). They are far more likely to support Putin for getting the country through that ordeal.
dang 8y ago
Please reply to the comment you're replying to by clicking 'reply'. It's not fair to continue the conversation from a perch at the top of the thread. How is the other person supposed to respond, or the reader to follow? Threaded comments solve this problem; please use them.