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"asserted ownership of everything I build, at work or away from work, using my own equipment, on my own time—it doesn't matter" That's the most ridiculous thin

"asserted ownership of everything I build, at work or away from work, using my own equipment, on my own time—it doesn't matter" That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Assuming you're not stealing technology, or doing it on their time or machines, there is no way a court would uphold that. If I build a house, or rebuild a car in my off time, they own that too? Corporations don't own your entire life.

ssalka 8y ago
Sadly this is fairly commonplace in IP contracts. Though some companies provide potential hires with an option to list "own inventions" wherein he/she can list projects they may continue to develop in their own time and retain ownership of. Granted, all entries therein are subject to approval by the company - obviously they won't let you pursue a project that is actually in competition with their business.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  My understanding of the “list all inventions/projects” activity is that its purpose is to let the employer know what past projects they can’t grab, but it is not a way for you to continue working on them while still owning the IP. Their lawyers will say, “we can’t go after the parts of this project that were disclosed to us, but we can go after it based on the parts you’ve worked on since joining us.”
- scarface74 8y ago
  One of the many things that attracted me to my current company is that the employment contract specifically states that you own your stuff that you do on your own time, that doesn’t compete with the company, as long as you use your own equipment. Not really a problem for me since I have no creative ideas to start a business outside of generic cloud consulting and screening potential employees for other companies.
jjoonathan 8y ago
Even the grand old red state I'm working in doesn't allow these claims but it sure didn't stop the company I work for from asking me to agree to them. After I moved and started working. I made a small stink about it but they were adamant and eventually I caved. These laws are important.
- jcadam 8y ago
  Yep, I now ask to see these agreements before signing a job offer after making a similar mistake at a previous company.
  - jjoonathan 8y ago
    I did too, and they made verbal promises that they went back on. Next time I'll make sure to ask in an on-the-record communications medium.
    - jcadam 8y ago
      Oh, wow. Nice to start off a working relationship by lying to the new hire. I might have signed if I were in a financial bind (e.g., just moved cross-country and couldn't afford to be unemployed), but I would immediately start looking for another job.
    - leetrout 8y ago
      Same here. Was working on some research projects and the future employer's recruiter said my new manager loves giving back and while I would have to reduce my hours on the project it should be fine. Legal did not agree, minor he-said-she-said spat and I reneged on the offer. I hate feeling like I'm an indentured servant for a company that wasn't even willing to match my existing pay.
alexhutcheson 8y ago
This blog post has a decent explanation of the rationale for why they are written that way: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-projects/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr...
- overcast 8y ago
  I understand their rationale, but the problem is that unless your state protects you from nonsense, they are still written in a way where they literally are saying they own everything you do outside of the job. Likely? Who knows. But if an employer was really interested in the value of one of your projects, they could potentially bring up a suit against you for it.
anonymous5133 8y ago
It doesn't stop them from suing you though. Do you really want to deal with this stuff in court? Anything I do in my private life I keep on the down low.

ssalka 8y ago

Sadly this is fairly commonplace in IP contracts. Though some companies provide potential hires with an option to list "own inventions" wherein he/she can list projects they may continue to develop in their own time and retain ownership of. Granted, all entries therein are subject to approval by the company - obviously they won't let you pursue a project that is actually in competition with their business.

ryandrake 8y ago
My understanding of the “list all inventions/projects” activity is that its purpose is to let the employer know what past projects they can’t grab, but it is not a way for you to continue working on them while still owning the IP. Their lawyers will say, “we can’t go after the parts of this project that were disclosed to us, but we can go after it based on the parts you’ve worked on since joining us.”
scarface74 8y ago
One of the many things that attracted me to my current company is that the employment contract specifically states that you own your stuff that you do on your own time, that doesn’t compete with the company, as long as you use your own equipment. Not really a problem for me since I have no creative ideas to start a business outside of generic cloud consulting and screening potential employees for other companies.

jjoonathan 8y ago

Even the grand old red state I'm working in doesn't allow these claims but it sure didn't stop the company I work for from asking me to agree to them. After I moved and started working. I made a small stink about it but they were adamant and eventually I caved. These laws are important.

jcadam 8y ago
Yep, I now ask to see these agreements before signing a job offer after making a similar mistake at a previous company.
- jjoonathan 8y ago
  I did too, and they made verbal promises that they went back on. Next time I'll make sure to ask in an on-the-record communications medium.
  - jcadam 8y ago
    Oh, wow. Nice to start off a working relationship by lying to the new hire. I might have signed if I were in a financial bind (e.g., just moved cross-country and couldn't afford to be unemployed), but I would immediately start looking for another job.
  - leetrout 8y ago
    Same here. Was working on some research projects and the future employer's recruiter said my new manager loves giving back and while I would have to reduce my hours on the project it should be fine. Legal did not agree, minor he-said-she-said spat and I reneged on the offer. I hate feeling like I'm an indentured servant for a company that wasn't even willing to match my existing pay.

alexhutcheson 8y ago

This blog post has a decent explanation of the rationale for why they are written that way: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-projects/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr...

overcast 8y ago
I understand their rationale, but the problem is that unless your state protects you from nonsense, they are still written in a way where they literally are saying they own everything you do outside of the job. Likely? Who knows. But if an employer was really interested in the value of one of your projects, they could potentially bring up a suit against you for it.

anonymous5133 8y ago

It doesn't stop them from suing you though. Do you really want to deal with this stuff in court? Anything I do in my private life I keep on the down low.