4 ms·

As a big fan of ergonomics, it's really hard for me to understand how anyone likes these types of keyboards.... Maybe its just my physical size, but to me, one

As a big fan of ergonomics, it's really hard for me to understand how anyone likes these types of keyboards.... Maybe its just my physical size, but to me, one of the biggest problems with traditional keyboards is how close the right and left key 'wells' are to each other. I started using a kinesis advantage some years ago and find them simply amazing for a multitude of reasons. - First off, the separation between right and left key 'wells' decreases pressure at my wrists significantly. - Secondly, the small, natural curve in the wells seems to greatly reduce the effort required to reach the most used keys. - And thirdly, thumb keys are bomb!! All of that said, it is a pretty expensive piece of gear... but it's also where the rubber meets the road -- where my fingers do the talking.. so why shouldn't it be nice?

slezyr 8y ago
You can also build ergodone or sp50 for half of the price.
- wrecursion 8y ago
  Yeah... that seems like a reasonable option - certainly for the price reduction alone. A couple of cons to that option for me: - Having already found a keyboard I love, It would be hard for me to switch without trying it first at no cost to me :). - I notice it does not have the curved key wells, which I have really come to appreciate. It may seem subtle, but after typing on one for a while, I find it really amazing what a difference the curves make. Any keys around the home keys just require less effort to activate. It feels quite nice to type with. - I have never built a keyboard before (but would like to give it a shot). Does that require soldering? Unless assembly is just completely foolproof, I think Id just prefer my main keyboard to be built by people who build them regularly :P
  - SuperPaintMan 8y ago
    Ergonomics was a large factor in building my own ErgoDox, my shoulders were killing me due to the keyboard being too short to be supported by the rests on my chair. Choosing to build your own keyboard is it's own little rabbit hole to go down, but it's worth it and you have a truly personalised device at the end. Some soldering and research is required but places such as r/mechanicalkeyboards and geekhack exist along with many many tutorials. As far as curved keywell that comes down to your choice of key profile. I'm using XDA which a flat profile, while a SA profile has a decent curve to it. The choice of board does come into play but most kits are flat as to avoid 3d printing and whatnot[1]. For the feel of the key itself there are a ton [2] of options, from extremely smooth and light linear switches to heavy clacking tactile switches, most being compatible so mixing and matching is possible. PCBs come in all sorts such as tiny 70% sizes, split, stenographic and some freakazoid monsters [3]. Even FOSS firmwares such as QMK are common and hackable! There are are too many options to enumerate! I just wanted a split keyboard that was small, light on my fingers and wouldn't wake the girlfriend up. I took some time and built a ErgoDox with Gateron clears, XDA blank keycaps and a programming focused layout. For less then 150CAD, it was worth it for it being entirely my own. [1] https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard [2] https://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:List_of_all_keyboard_switches https://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:List_of_all_keyboard_s... [3] https://keeb.io/products/bfo-9000-keyboard-customizable-full-size-split-ortholinear?variant=8116135755882 https://keeb.io/products/bfo-9000-keyboard-customizable-full...
    - wrecursion 8y ago
      Very cool. Thanks for sharing! This definitely makes me want to build one now! One thing I really like about the ErgoDox, and similar designs, is the ability to move the key wells to wherever you want! Even the kinesis still feels a bit too close together for me!
      - SuperPaintMan 8y ago
        Exactly! My arms rest perfectly on the arm rests and my spine is thanking me for it! If you want a prebuilt there's the ErgoDox EZ but that takes half the fun out of it :) Take the dive, be the guy that built his own damn keyboard!
  - bootlooped 8y ago
    The Ergodox-EZ is a pre-built model you can buy. If you get the DCS profile keycaps it will have a bit of a faux curve, not like on the real deal Kinesis, but better than standard keyboards. I imagine my ideal keyboard would be a Kinesis Advantage, but split and fully programmable.
ungzd 8y ago
One of problems with columnar/ortholinear/split keyboards is that all of them are 40%-50%ish. I never seen such keyboard with '[' and ']' keys in standard places. Sometimes there's no "'" too. Yes, this is by design, because these keys are too far away from home position, but I use Russian layout and it has 'х', 'ъ' and 'э' letters on these keys. Not the most frequent letters but still I don't like idea to have letters on some unrelated places on "punctuation layer". Not everybody likes heavy use of modifier keys. Despite using computers from early 90s I still struggle with pressing ctrl/alt/super before alphanum key, sometimes I press keys in wrong order (i.e. I press alphanum before ctrl is fully pressed). Using multiple layers with Fn keys would be probably a nightmare for me.
- bootlooped 8y ago
  I think a fully programmable keyboard might be able to satisfy your requirements. Off the top of my head Ergodox/Ergodone, Iris, Helix, and Let's Split are a few that are split and programmable.

slezyr 8y ago

You can also build ergodone or sp50 for half of the price.

wrecursion 8y ago
Yeah... that seems like a reasonable option - certainly for the price reduction alone. A couple of cons to that option for me: - Having already found a keyboard I love, It would be hard for me to switch without trying it first at no cost to me :). - I notice it does not have the curved key wells, which I have really come to appreciate. It may seem subtle, but after typing on one for a while, I find it really amazing what a difference the curves make. Any keys around the home keys just require less effort to activate. It feels quite nice to type with. - I have never built a keyboard before (but would like to give it a shot). Does that require soldering? Unless assembly is just completely foolproof, I think Id just prefer my main keyboard to be built by people who build them regularly :P
- SuperPaintMan 8y ago
  Ergonomics was a large factor in building my own ErgoDox, my shoulders were killing me due to the keyboard being too short to be supported by the rests on my chair. Choosing to build your own keyboard is it's own little rabbit hole to go down, but it's worth it and you have a truly personalised device at the end. Some soldering and research is required but places such as r/mechanicalkeyboards and geekhack exist along with many many tutorials. As far as curved keywell that comes down to your choice of key profile. I'm using XDA which a flat profile, while a SA profile has a decent curve to it. The choice of board does come into play but most kits are flat as to avoid 3d printing and whatnot[1]. For the feel of the key itself there are a ton [2] of options, from extremely smooth and light linear switches to heavy clacking tactile switches, most being compatible so mixing and matching is possible. PCBs come in all sorts such as tiny 70% sizes, split, stenographic and some freakazoid monsters [3]. Even FOSS firmwares such as QMK are common and hackable! There are are too many options to enumerate! I just wanted a split keyboard that was small, light on my fingers and wouldn't wake the girlfriend up. I took some time and built a ErgoDox with Gateron clears, XDA blank keycaps and a programming focused layout. For less then 150CAD, it was worth it for it being entirely my own. [1] https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard [2] https://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:List_of_all_keyboard_switches https://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:List_of_all_keyboard_s... [3] https://keeb.io/products/bfo-9000-keyboard-customizable-full-size-split-ortholinear?variant=8116135755882 https://keeb.io/products/bfo-9000-keyboard-customizable-full...
  - wrecursion 8y ago
    Very cool. Thanks for sharing! This definitely makes me want to build one now! One thing I really like about the ErgoDox, and similar designs, is the ability to move the key wells to wherever you want! Even the kinesis still feels a bit too close together for me!
    - SuperPaintMan 8y ago
      Exactly! My arms rest perfectly on the arm rests and my spine is thanking me for it! If you want a prebuilt there's the ErgoDox EZ but that takes half the fun out of it :) Take the dive, be the guy that built his own damn keyboard!
- bootlooped 8y ago
  The Ergodox-EZ is a pre-built model you can buy. If you get the DCS profile keycaps it will have a bit of a faux curve, not like on the real deal Kinesis, but better than standard keyboards. I imagine my ideal keyboard would be a Kinesis Advantage, but split and fully programmable.

ungzd 8y ago

One of problems with columnar/ortholinear/split keyboards is that all of them are 40%-50%ish. I never seen such keyboard with '[' and ']' keys in standard places. Sometimes there's no "'" too. Yes, this is by design, because these keys are too far away from home position, but I use Russian layout and it has 'х', 'ъ' and 'э' letters on these keys. Not the most frequent letters but still I don't like idea to have letters on some unrelated places on "punctuation layer". Not everybody likes heavy use of modifier keys. Despite using computers from early 90s I still struggle with pressing ctrl/alt/super before alphanum key, sometimes I press keys in wrong order (i.e. I press alphanum before ctrl is fully pressed). Using multiple layers with Fn keys would be probably a nightmare for me.

bootlooped 8y ago
I think a fully programmable keyboard might be able to satisfy your requirements. Off the top of my head Ergodox/Ergodone, Iris, Helix, and Let's Split are a few that are split and programmable.