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> At a meeting over the issue he said Zuckerberg also told him: “This is probably the last time you’ll ever talk to me.” I realize this was probably said in fr

by ohazi 8y ago

> At a meeting over the issue he said Zuckerberg also told him: “This is probably the last time you’ll ever talk to me.” I realize this was probably said in fruatration, but I think it paints a pretty clear picture of Zuckerberg's arrogance and entitlement.

wallace_f 8y ago
And of course he is well known for that. What is less well-known is the elite institutions which groomed him tend to not do much of anything about the fact that they are sometimes, not always, sending these types of Stanford-Prison-Superiority-Complex personalities out into the world.
Illniyar 8y ago
I think that's a reasonable position in response from an employee trying to "activate a clause written into their contract to allow them to immediately get all their stock if the company began “implementing monetization initiatives” without their consent" . Now whether or not he was in the right to demand it, when actually doing so I doubt anyone expected to have a working relationship after that.
- Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
  Why would you agree to a contract with that clause if you aren't prepared for it to be invoked?
  - nickspacek 8y ago
    People change; perhaps they had previously discovered terms in which monetization would be agreeable. Then when that monetization happened, the other party had a change of heart and no longer consented. If done in bad faith I could see that annoying someone.
    - kbenson 8y ago
      > perhaps they had previously discovered terms in which monetization would be agreeable. If that was the case, I doubt it would have been explicitly and legally formalized in the contract as disallowed without a payout. If two parties decide that a clause of a contract doesn't need to be enforced, you rewrite the contract. Anything else is just stupid, as it allows the person likely to gain to say "well, I didn't really mean that...". If you've formalized something in a legally binding contract, be prepared to follow through on it. Full stop.
- e_proxus 8y ago
  But he must have signed of on the contract, so he would know it could happen? Why act all offended by it? Especially since Facebook's agenda seem pretty clear-cut: put ads into WhatsApp
- bitL 8y ago
  But it was Mark & Co that went predatory and started implementing monetization initiatives, right? It still paints Mark in bad light, it's not like Koum & Co weren't entitled to that part of the contract and instead were the primary violators?
  - piker 8y ago
    To be fair, I don't know if exploring/researching/soliciting input on monetization ahead of the "implementation" standstill is bad faith at all.
- ohazi 8y ago
  In a vacuum, perhaps, but I think there's more to it than that. Another account yesterday mentioned plans to put Kevin Systrom under a different manager that would have given him "less access to Zuckerberg." Earlier accounts described them as friendly, always seen together, etc. It seems like Facebook is a company where access to the CEO is so tightly controlled that it's basically used as a political weapon.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > access to the CEO is so tightly controlled that it's basically used as a political weapon This is true at almost any organization of scale. Access to top decision makers must be restricted. The people who make decisions about the restrictions, therefore, gain influence through that process. The power can be used properly or improperly. In this case, it appears to have been used properly: there was no further discussion on the matter, and the employee had shown themselves to be out of line with the CEO's strategy.
  - macspoofing 8y ago
    >It seems like Facebook is a company where access to the CEO is so tightly controlled that it's basically used as a political weapon. Is it different at any other Fortune 50 company? At that scale, the companies are basically nations.
- nraynaud 8y ago
  That's brutal and manichean, you can organize a soft transition, you can organize a change of role at the same company, you can try to convince the person to do something else than resigning, you can even discuss with the person what they want to do after they are gone and see if you can help. Engaging instead of sending the thugs to empty the cubicle.
southerndrift 8y ago
Or could it just be Zuckerberg realizing that he is burning all bridges by implementing the monetization?
godzillabrennus 8y ago
It’s clear from his testimony in front of Congress that dealing with people isn’t his fortay.
- throwaway080383 8y ago
  *Forte
  - godzillabrennus 8y ago
    Thanks! I’d blame autocorrect but this one is a layer 8 issue.
chalkandpaste 8y ago
This. I'd always assumed Zuck was like this, great to see some confirmation that my expectations for him weren't too low.
jlarocco 8y ago
Because the "I'm the CEO, bitch" business cards weren't clear enough.
mankash666 8y ago
What?! Zuck dropped a cool $21B on the app - I believe he's entitled to expect a return on investment without being bullied, using a public business model everyone knew about. Facebook isn't a non profit, and zuck is actually accountable to investors
nova22033 8y ago
>entitlement Who does Zuck think he is, the CEO of facebook?
WC3w6pXxgGd 8y ago
This paints a clear picture of the opposite. An employee saying "this is probably the last time you’ll ever talk to me" to their employer is an arrogant and entitled behavior on behalf of the employee.
fareesh 8y ago
It could also be empathizing with an angry person. For example, an employee is rude to a client. You call the client to do damage control, because you have a personal relationship, the client continues to be furious. You say "Look, I know you're angry and I know this is probably the last time you'll ever talk to me, but if I can say one last thing, it will be that we have always tried to <insert conciliatory remainder of conversation>" I don't know if that is always arrogance or entitlement, is it?
neonate 8y ago
I'd be careful about assuming that. A context switch can make anything sound like anything.

by ohazi 8y ago

wallace_f 8y ago

And of course he is well known for that. What is less well-known is the elite institutions which groomed him tend to not do much of anything about the fact that they are sometimes, not always, sending these types of Stanford-Prison-Superiority-Complex personalities out into the world.

Illniyar 8y ago

I think that's a reasonable position in response from an employee trying to "activate a clause written into their contract to allow them to immediately get all their stock if the company began “implementing monetization initiatives” without their consent" . Now whether or not he was in the right to demand it, when actually doing so I doubt anyone expected to have a working relationship after that.

Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
Why would you agree to a contract with that clause if you aren't prepared for it to be invoked?
- nickspacek 8y ago
  People change; perhaps they had previously discovered terms in which monetization would be agreeable. Then when that monetization happened, the other party had a change of heart and no longer consented. If done in bad faith I could see that annoying someone.
  - kbenson 8y ago
    > perhaps they had previously discovered terms in which monetization would be agreeable. If that was the case, I doubt it would have been explicitly and legally formalized in the contract as disallowed without a payout. If two parties decide that a clause of a contract doesn't need to be enforced, you rewrite the contract. Anything else is just stupid, as it allows the person likely to gain to say "well, I didn't really mean that...". If you've formalized something in a legally binding contract, be prepared to follow through on it. Full stop.
e_proxus 8y ago
But he must have signed of on the contract, so he would know it could happen? Why act all offended by it? Especially since Facebook's agenda seem pretty clear-cut: put ads into WhatsApp
bitL 8y ago
But it was Mark & Co that went predatory and started implementing monetization initiatives, right? It still paints Mark in bad light, it's not like Koum & Co weren't entitled to that part of the contract and instead were the primary violators?
- piker 8y ago
  To be fair, I don't know if exploring/researching/soliciting input on monetization ahead of the "implementation" standstill is bad faith at all.
ohazi 8y ago
In a vacuum, perhaps, but I think there's more to it than that. Another account yesterday mentioned plans to put Kevin Systrom under a different manager that would have given him "less access to Zuckerberg." Earlier accounts described them as friendly, always seen together, etc. It seems like Facebook is a company where access to the CEO is so tightly controlled that it's basically used as a political weapon.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > access to the CEO is so tightly controlled that it's basically used as a political weapon This is true at almost any organization of scale. Access to top decision makers must be restricted. The people who make decisions about the restrictions, therefore, gain influence through that process. The power can be used properly or improperly. In this case, it appears to have been used properly: there was no further discussion on the matter, and the employee had shown themselves to be out of line with the CEO's strategy.
- macspoofing 8y ago
  >It seems like Facebook is a company where access to the CEO is so tightly controlled that it's basically used as a political weapon. Is it different at any other Fortune 50 company? At that scale, the companies are basically nations.
nraynaud 8y ago
That's brutal and manichean, you can organize a soft transition, you can organize a change of role at the same company, you can try to convince the person to do something else than resigning, you can even discuss with the person what they want to do after they are gone and see if you can help. Engaging instead of sending the thugs to empty the cubicle.

southerndrift 8y ago

Or could it just be Zuckerberg realizing that he is burning all bridges by implementing the monetization?

godzillabrennus 8y ago

It’s clear from his testimony in front of Congress that dealing with people isn’t his fortay.

throwaway080383 8y ago
*Forte
- godzillabrennus 8y ago
  Thanks! I’d blame autocorrect but this one is a layer 8 issue.

chalkandpaste 8y ago

This. I'd always assumed Zuck was like this, great to see some confirmation that my expectations for him weren't too low.

jlarocco 8y ago

Because the "I'm the CEO, bitch" business cards weren't clear enough.

mankash666 8y ago

What?! Zuck dropped a cool $21B on the app - I believe he's entitled to expect a return on investment without being bullied, using a public business model everyone knew about. Facebook isn't a non profit, and zuck is actually accountable to investors

nova22033 8y ago

>entitlement Who does Zuck think he is, the CEO of facebook?

WC3w6pXxgGd 8y ago

This paints a clear picture of the opposite. An employee saying "this is probably the last time you’ll ever talk to me" to their employer is an arrogant and entitled behavior on behalf of the employee.

fareesh 8y ago

It could also be empathizing with an angry person. For example, an employee is rude to a client. You call the client to do damage control, because you have a personal relationship, the client continues to be furious. You say "Look, I know you're angry and I know this is probably the last time you'll ever talk to me, but if I can say one last thing, it will be that we have always tried to <insert conciliatory remainder of conversation>" I don't know if that is always arrogance or entitlement, is it?

neonate 8y ago

I'd be careful about assuming that. A context switch can make anything sound like anything.