4 ms·

There's a gentlemen's agreement between nations that this is permissible for poor nations. China is no longer poor and now must act like a wealthy nation and ac

There's a gentlemen's agreement between nations that this is permissible for poor nations. China is no longer poor and now must act like a wealthy nation and accept IP laws.

kome 8y ago
There is no law at the international level. China can do whatever it wants. But, other countries can do whatever they want as well: they can stop trading with China. But China's labor is so cheap. Exploitation is a sweet sweet drug for the west. So, it's complicated.
- Fjolsvith 8y ago
  Exactly. We got rid of our "re-education" employment centers long ago.
getmoheb 8y ago
i can't tell if you're joking but there is no such thing as a 'gentlemen's agreement' in international relations. nations go as far as they can and do what they feel they can get away with to advance their interests. hence, you know, espionage.
Leary 8y ago
Francis Cabot Lowell, who was instrumental behind the industrialization of the US, visited textile plants in the UK and committed their designs to memory, which were later introduced to the famed Lowell textile plants in Massachusetts. At the time (1826), America's per capita GDP was $2,460, which is 68% of the UK's per capita GDP of $3,600. Today, China's per capita GDP is $16,000, or 29% of of the US's per capita GDP of $55,000.
- fhood 8y ago
  Fair enough, but as I recall, respect for patent law at the time was very limited, particularly where other countries were concerned.
- HaloZero 8y ago
  Other Western nations are also behind the US in terms of GDP per capita but not as much as China. Japan is about $39,000, Germany is $41,000, France is like $37,000. But Poland which is part of the EU is $12,000 as well. Russia is like $9000 per capita.
  - Aunche 8y ago
    Poland can't get away with violating IP laws, since they're part of the EU and benefit from that relationship. Russia is basically doing the same thing as China, but they don't export enough for it to really matter.
  - yorwba 8y ago
    I found a report by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s Global Innovation Policy Center rating different countries' intellectual property policies: http://globalipcenter.wpengine.com//wp-content/uploads/2018/02/GIPC_IP_Index_2018.pdf http://globalipcenter.wpengine.com//wp-content/uploads/2018/... For all I know the numbers are totally made up, but they rate Russia at 17.29, China at 19.08, Poland at 26.56, Japan at 34.58, Germany at 36.54, France at 36.74 and the US at 37.98. Obviously the relationship to GDP per capita isn't monotonic, but some correlation appears to be there.
- stevenwoo 8y ago
  Is this GDP measured per free person in America or does it include slaves or is it the traditional American a slave counts a 3/5 person for the purposes of government? I recall reading somewhere James Madison bragging about his yearly investment in his slaves was $12 and his return was $250, and this is only about 10 years before the UK outlawed slavery in total across the empire.
triangleman 8y ago
According to Wikipedia[0] China GDP(PPP)/capita is $16,624, just below Dominican Republic and Iraq. Not sure that's "wealthy" quite yet. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...
- wang_li 8y ago
  When an authoritarian government enforces policies that lead to massive wealth inequality it becomes pointless to measure things on a per capita basis. If China had policies in place to lift the quality of life of the majority of the population it might be acceptable to measure stuff on a per capita basis.
  - echevil 8y ago
    Wealth inequality in US is not any better, under the policies of a democratic government
    - plink 8y ago
      As a U.S. citizen myself, I was under the impression that accelerating wealth inequality was the no-longer-so-tacit woof and weave of our culture.
  - mattnewton 8y ago
    Funny, I think of China as one of the most extreme experiments in raising the quality of living of people by direct executive order, which you seem to imply they just aren’t doing hard enough, or don’t really care about. China is huge and I can’t imagine how hard it is to govern.
aaaaaaaaaab 8y ago
As they say in international relations: “or else?”
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Or else worse trade deals with you? China is already suffering from it. The golden age of them not giving a fuck about IP in hardware space are coming to an end, to detriment of the society at large.
stcredzero 8y ago
There's a gentlemen's agreement between nations that this is permissible for poor nations. China is no longer poor and now must act like a wealthy nation and accept IP laws. Also, China has grown an upper class whose interests most strongly align with strong IP laws.
Nasrudith 8y ago
It isn't really a gentleman's agreement so much as a blood from a stone type thing. Forcing their "rights" would require expensive imperialism, appall others and breed insurgencies as local sentiment turns from 'screw the kleptocrat in charge' to 'get those foreign literal invaders out'. The occupying forces and home country get pissy about pointless wars and deaths to serve wealthy interests and it becomes clear the whole thing isn't worth it by the hundredth maiming. Law propagation is done cynically via who benefits - either via influence and threats or mutual benefit. China would need to suffer from a lack of protection of their own to agree to the status quo which the west has become accustomed to. It is not a natrual state of being by any means. Anyone who has suffered bullying and received a blind eye from society in return would know that despite the lofty claimed principles they never operate on equality, justice or other but power and what they can get away with.

There's a gentlemen's agreement between nations that this is permissible for poor nations. China is no longer poor and now must act like a wealthy nation and accept IP laws.

kome 8y ago

There is no law at the international level. China can do whatever it wants. But, other countries can do whatever they want as well: they can stop trading with China. But China's labor is so cheap. Exploitation is a sweet sweet drug for the west. So, it's complicated.

Fjolsvith 8y ago
Exactly. We got rid of our "re-education" employment centers long ago.

getmoheb 8y ago

i can't tell if you're joking but there is no such thing as a 'gentlemen's agreement' in international relations. nations go as far as they can and do what they feel they can get away with to advance their interests. hence, you know, espionage.

Leary 8y ago

Francis Cabot Lowell, who was instrumental behind the industrialization of the US, visited textile plants in the UK and committed their designs to memory, which were later introduced to the famed Lowell textile plants in Massachusetts. At the time (1826), America's per capita GDP was $2,460, which is 68% of the UK's per capita GDP of $3,600. Today, China's per capita GDP is $16,000, or 29% of of the US's per capita GDP of $55,000.

fhood 8y ago
Fair enough, but as I recall, respect for patent law at the time was very limited, particularly where other countries were concerned.
HaloZero 8y ago
Other Western nations are also behind the US in terms of GDP per capita but not as much as China. Japan is about $39,000, Germany is $41,000, France is like $37,000. But Poland which is part of the EU is $12,000 as well. Russia is like $9000 per capita.
- Aunche 8y ago
  Poland can't get away with violating IP laws, since they're part of the EU and benefit from that relationship. Russia is basically doing the same thing as China, but they don't export enough for it to really matter.
- yorwba 8y ago
  I found a report by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s Global Innovation Policy Center rating different countries' intellectual property policies: http://globalipcenter.wpengine.com//wp-content/uploads/2018/02/GIPC_IP_Index_2018.pdf http://globalipcenter.wpengine.com//wp-content/uploads/2018/... For all I know the numbers are totally made up, but they rate Russia at 17.29, China at 19.08, Poland at 26.56, Japan at 34.58, Germany at 36.54, France at 36.74 and the US at 37.98. Obviously the relationship to GDP per capita isn't monotonic, but some correlation appears to be there.
stevenwoo 8y ago
Is this GDP measured per free person in America or does it include slaves or is it the traditional American a slave counts a 3/5 person for the purposes of government? I recall reading somewhere James Madison bragging about his yearly investment in his slaves was $12 and his return was $250, and this is only about 10 years before the UK outlawed slavery in total across the empire.

triangleman 8y ago

According to Wikipedia[0] China GDP(PPP)/capita is $16,624, just below Dominican Republic and Iraq. Not sure that's "wealthy" quite yet. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...

wang_li 8y ago
When an authoritarian government enforces policies that lead to massive wealth inequality it becomes pointless to measure things on a per capita basis. If China had policies in place to lift the quality of life of the majority of the population it might be acceptable to measure stuff on a per capita basis.
- echevil 8y ago
  Wealth inequality in US is not any better, under the policies of a democratic government
  - plink 8y ago
    As a U.S. citizen myself, I was under the impression that accelerating wealth inequality was the no-longer-so-tacit woof and weave of our culture.
- mattnewton 8y ago
  Funny, I think of China as one of the most extreme experiments in raising the quality of living of people by direct executive order, which you seem to imply they just aren’t doing hard enough, or don’t really care about. China is huge and I can’t imagine how hard it is to govern.

aaaaaaaaaab 8y ago

As they say in international relations: “or else?”

TeMPOraL 8y ago
Or else worse trade deals with you? China is already suffering from it. The golden age of them not giving a fuck about IP in hardware space are coming to an end, to detriment of the society at large.

stcredzero 8y ago

There's a gentlemen's agreement between nations that this is permissible for poor nations. China is no longer poor and now must act like a wealthy nation and accept IP laws. Also, China has grown an upper class whose interests most strongly align with strong IP laws.

Nasrudith 8y ago

It isn't really a gentleman's agreement so much as a blood from a stone type thing. Forcing their "rights" would require expensive imperialism, appall others and breed insurgencies as local sentiment turns from 'screw the kleptocrat in charge' to 'get those foreign literal invaders out'. The occupying forces and home country get pissy about pointless wars and deaths to serve wealthy interests and it becomes clear the whole thing isn't worth it by the hundredth maiming. Law propagation is done cynically via who benefits - either via influence and threats or mutual benefit. China would need to suffer from a lack of protection of their own to agree to the status quo which the west has become accustomed to. It is not a natrual state of being by any means. Anyone who has suffered bullying and received a blind eye from society in return would know that despite the lofty claimed principles they never operate on equality, justice or other but power and what they can get away with.