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How is that possible? Are you going to the Oracle download page and downloading the RPMs? Are you specifically adding a repository that includes Oracle software

by dnomad 8y ago

How is that possible? Are you going to the Oracle download page and downloading the RPMs? Are you specifically adding a repository that includes Oracle software? There are certainly no default repositories that include this code. The whole point (and it's been this way for years) is that you can't download the Oracle jdk without clicking through a license.

StreamBright 8y ago
New JRE/JDK gets released -> somebody from our company goes and downloads the RPM after accepting the license -> she uploads the RPM into our internal repository -> somebody from another department changes the build scripts to use the new JRE/JDK -> few minutes later we are running the dev clusters with the new JRE/JDK. In this process the person who downloads the new RPM (aka me) has to be 100% sure that the new JDK is ok to be used. Which I completely missed (my bad) I was wondering about the GPL stuff a bit but I was thinking that Oracle came to their senses and started to distribute the JRE/JDK under a license that is better than the previous one. Again, my bad that I paid attention more to the performance improvements, modules, ZGC etc. than to the license changes. This is why I was surprised when I saw the article from Joda (his real name is Stephen?) and also upvoted, sent around to all my Java peers to be aware that this is absolutely, 100%, pure fuckery that Orcle just dumped on us.
- admax88q 8y ago
  Sounds like your company needs a better processes on how proprietary code is distributed internally. Most companies have a review process for thins like this. The download page [1] has a large bold warning that the license terms have changed. What else would you like them to do? [1] - https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk11-downloads-5066655.html https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk...
- repolfx 8y ago
  Hmmm. At most you're mad because the bright yellow warning box that tells you specifically to re-read the license because it changed is not clear enough for you, even though apparently being sure about exactly that is your job. I'm not sure you can blame Oracle for this. They could I guess give you a tl;dr summary in the box. But, how long would it take you to study the new situation? A few minutes?
  - StreamBright 8y ago
    I am not mad. I am thankful. And yes I am a ignorant engineer who cares more about features than legal crap. The only thing I am 100% sure is that I am not alone.
    - bloodgain 8y ago
      If you don't care about all aspects of your software, including security, ethics, and legality, you are not an engineer. Engineering implies professionalism. It's debatable whether there are any true software engineers (we're certainly not licensed like traditional engineers), but all software professionals should be concerned about licenses. It's part of the job, as are all ethical considerations of your work.
LaGrange 8y ago
It's fairly common to automate that stuff away, and not just for Oracle. For example, if agreeing to TOS was neccessary, Let's Encrypt could no longer be "totally automated". Therefore certbot has an "--agree-tos" option, present in oh so many ansible repositories.
- vbezhenar 8y ago
  How do you automate that? You need some kind of cookie to download JDK and you're getting it by clicking a button. The only way to automate it is to simulate "agree" click.
  - LaGrange 8y ago
    Curl lets you keep a cookie jar around, for example, so yes, it's pretty simple. It's also a terrible idea, but doesn't seem to stop people.
    - repolfx 8y ago
      You'd have to update the URL anyway because the v8 JDK hasn't changed, from what I remember. So those scripts wouldn't be affected.
  - yebyen 8y ago
    I'm not saying I'd write an "I Agree" bot, but I've certainly written scrapers of comparable or greater complexity, and I'd be quite surprised if there was nobody that did this. If you haven't written a bot, but you habitually download the JRE/JDK from Oracle's website, accepting the license manually each time, is there really a difference? How many people are rereading the license each time they do this? I would guess the number of people that do this is roughly a rounding error above 0.
    - cbsmith 8y ago
      Writing an "I Agree" bot without checking out what the license was...

by dnomad 8y ago

StreamBright 8y ago

New JRE/JDK gets released -> somebody from our company goes and downloads the RPM after accepting the license -> she uploads the RPM into our internal repository -> somebody from another department changes the build scripts to use the new JRE/JDK -> few minutes later we are running the dev clusters with the new JRE/JDK. In this process the person who downloads the new RPM (aka me) has to be 100% sure that the new JDK is ok to be used. Which I completely missed (my bad) I was wondering about the GPL stuff a bit but I was thinking that Oracle came to their senses and started to distribute the JRE/JDK under a license that is better than the previous one. Again, my bad that I paid attention more to the performance improvements, modules, ZGC etc. than to the license changes. This is why I was surprised when I saw the article from Joda (his real name is Stephen?) and also upvoted, sent around to all my Java peers to be aware that this is absolutely, 100%, pure fuckery that Orcle just dumped on us.

admax88q 8y ago
Sounds like your company needs a better processes on how proprietary code is distributed internally. Most companies have a review process for thins like this. The download page [1] has a large bold warning that the license terms have changed. What else would you like them to do? [1] - https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk11-downloads-5066655.html https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk...
repolfx 8y ago
Hmmm. At most you're mad because the bright yellow warning box that tells you specifically to re-read the license because it changed is not clear enough for you, even though apparently being sure about exactly that is your job. I'm not sure you can blame Oracle for this. They could I guess give you a tl;dr summary in the box. But, how long would it take you to study the new situation? A few minutes?
- StreamBright 8y ago
  I am not mad. I am thankful. And yes I am a ignorant engineer who cares more about features than legal crap. The only thing I am 100% sure is that I am not alone.
  - bloodgain 8y ago
    If you don't care about all aspects of your software, including security, ethics, and legality, you are not an engineer. Engineering implies professionalism. It's debatable whether there are any true software engineers (we're certainly not licensed like traditional engineers), but all software professionals should be concerned about licenses. It's part of the job, as are all ethical considerations of your work.

LaGrange 8y ago

It's fairly common to automate that stuff away, and not just for Oracle. For example, if agreeing to TOS was neccessary, Let's Encrypt could no longer be "totally automated". Therefore certbot has an "--agree-tos" option, present in oh so many ansible repositories.

vbezhenar 8y ago
How do you automate that? You need some kind of cookie to download JDK and you're getting it by clicking a button. The only way to automate it is to simulate "agree" click.
- LaGrange 8y ago
  Curl lets you keep a cookie jar around, for example, so yes, it's pretty simple. It's also a terrible idea, but doesn't seem to stop people.
  - repolfx 8y ago
    You'd have to update the URL anyway because the v8 JDK hasn't changed, from what I remember. So those scripts wouldn't be affected.
- yebyen 8y ago
  I'm not saying I'd write an "I Agree" bot, but I've certainly written scrapers of comparable or greater complexity, and I'd be quite surprised if there was nobody that did this. If you haven't written a bot, but you habitually download the JRE/JDK from Oracle's website, accepting the license manually each time, is there really a difference? How many people are rereading the license each time they do this? I would guess the number of people that do this is roughly a rounding error above 0.
  - cbsmith 8y ago
    Writing an "I Agree" bot without checking out what the license was...