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Oracle seriously needs to be fought in court about this and their other actions. They're actively hostile to the whole tech community and their entire business

Oracle seriously needs to be fought in court about this and their other actions. They're actively hostile to the whole tech community and their entire business model is based on trapping people into paying for things by not making their licenses clear or changing their licenses. I don't know why anyone would use any software made by Oracle these days, the alternatives and open implementations of their own systems tend to be faster - and their "unbreakable Linux kernel" is a joke and a legal disaster waiting to happen.

Cthulhu_ 8y ago
> by not making their licenses clear How is that? The license is pretty clear, as stated in the article: > You may not: use the Programs for any data processing or any commercial, production, or internal business purposes other than developing, testing, prototyping, and demonstrating your Application; If you cannot understand that language you should not download or use the JDK.
- deskamess 8y ago
  When they reference "programs" does this apply to the JRE (i.e., the java binary as well) as well? Is this a JDK license or a JRE license issue?
- snarfy 8y ago
  You missed the rest of the quote. > or changing their licenses. It was never clear they were going to change their license after years of making it $free to something not $free.
  - repolfx 8y ago
    They have been communicating the changes in how OpenJDK and Oracle JDK work for a year now, through many public talks, announcements, blog posts and so on. Moreover the changes are good for the community. OpenJDK is now the reference implementation and equivalent to the old Oracle JDK in every way. The only reason to use the Oracle JDK now is to get commercial support from Oracle. Calling this a "trap" is dumb. Not only did Oracle change the licenses to be better for end users, they are highlighting the changes in a big yellow box and the license is written clearly. OpenJDK is regular GPL + an exception so you don't have to GPL your own apps. To repeat, Java is getting more free not less.
- craigsmansion 8y ago
  Of course an Eldritch Horror apologist is going to take Oracle's side. Have you ever considered being eaten first isn't all it's made out to be?
  - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
    I downvoted and flagged you for this comment. Then I caught the GP's user name, and undid both...
- icedchai 8y ago
  "Testing" is pretty vague. I'm testing in production. (Actually, I'm sticking with JDK 8 for now.)
danpalmer 8y ago
> Oracle seriously needs to be fought in court about this and their other actions. The problem is that very few companies have the desire or resources to do this. The community certainly doesn't have the resources. We'd need tens of millions of dollars of legal resources to fight their terrible behaviour.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  As if Sun made everything available for free before. Or any other major player in the Java space like IBM.
- scirocco 8y ago
  We don't need legal resources Customers' wallets will decide their faith
AnimalMuppet 8y ago
> Oracle seriously needs to be fought in court about this and their other actions. The problem is, to win in court (not just go to court), you need actual grounds. What would be the grounds for suing Oracle in court? For hiding the terms of the license? They didn't; the new terms have been as plain as any terms are in software licenses. For changing the terms of the license? But Oracle was never obligated to supply new software on the old terms (unless the old license or some other contract obligated them to, but I don't think that's the case). For changing the license terms on Java 8? But they had no obligation to continue to supply Java 8 under the old terms. (If you have an old copy of Java 8, the old license continues to apply, unless the old license specifies that Oracle gets to change it. Even if the old license does say that, it's not grounds for a lawsuit.) So, specifically, on what grounds could you realistically sue Oracle? Note well: I'm not an apologist for Oracle's behavior. I just don't think there's actual grounds for a lawsuit here.
deleted 8y ago
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Cthulhu_ 8y ago

> by not making their licenses clear How is that? The license is pretty clear, as stated in the article: > You may not: use the Programs for any data processing or any commercial, production, or internal business purposes other than developing, testing, prototyping, and demonstrating your Application; If you cannot understand that language you should not download or use the JDK.

deskamess 8y ago
When they reference "programs" does this apply to the JRE (i.e., the java binary as well) as well? Is this a JDK license or a JRE license issue?
snarfy 8y ago
You missed the rest of the quote. > or changing their licenses. It was never clear they were going to change their license after years of making it $free to something not $free.
- repolfx 8y ago
  They have been communicating the changes in how OpenJDK and Oracle JDK work for a year now, through many public talks, announcements, blog posts and so on. Moreover the changes are good for the community. OpenJDK is now the reference implementation and equivalent to the old Oracle JDK in every way. The only reason to use the Oracle JDK now is to get commercial support from Oracle. Calling this a "trap" is dumb. Not only did Oracle change the licenses to be better for end users, they are highlighting the changes in a big yellow box and the license is written clearly. OpenJDK is regular GPL + an exception so you don't have to GPL your own apps. To repeat, Java is getting more free not less.
craigsmansion 8y ago
Of course an Eldritch Horror apologist is going to take Oracle's side. Have you ever considered being eaten first isn't all it's made out to be?
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  I downvoted and flagged you for this comment. Then I caught the GP's user name, and undid both...
icedchai 8y ago
"Testing" is pretty vague. I'm testing in production. (Actually, I'm sticking with JDK 8 for now.)

danpalmer 8y ago

> Oracle seriously needs to be fought in court about this and their other actions. The problem is that very few companies have the desire or resources to do this. The community certainly doesn't have the resources. We'd need tens of millions of dollars of legal resources to fight their terrible behaviour.

pjmlp 8y ago
As if Sun made everything available for free before. Or any other major player in the Java space like IBM.
scirocco 8y ago
We don't need legal resources Customers' wallets will decide their faith

AnimalMuppet 8y ago

> Oracle seriously needs to be fought in court about this and their other actions. The problem is, to win in court (not just go to court), you need actual grounds. What would be the grounds for suing Oracle in court? For hiding the terms of the license? They didn't; the new terms have been as plain as any terms are in software licenses. For changing the terms of the license? But Oracle was never obligated to supply new software on the old terms (unless the old license or some other contract obligated them to, but I don't think that's the case). For changing the license terms on Java 8? But they had no obligation to continue to supply Java 8 under the old terms. (If you have an old copy of Java 8, the old license continues to apply, unless the old license specifies that Oracle gets to change it. Even if the old license does say that, it's not grounds for a lawsuit.) So, specifically, on what grounds could you realistically sue Oracle? Note well: I'm not an apologist for Oracle's behavior. I just don't think there's actual grounds for a lawsuit here.

deleted 8y ago

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