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I'm not sure why people are surprised. Google has been downright evil for quite a while now. They do this in all their products, down to the point of intentiona

I'm not sure why people are surprised. Google has been downright evil for quite a while now. They do this in all their products, down to the point of intentionally crippling them. For instance, since Android 5, the standard contact app doesn't allow you to modify a contact which is not synced with an account. Why even do this? The list of tracking settings that can be turned permanently on, but only temporarily off is ever growing. At some point, you just give up because it's such a silly waste of time. Google knows this very well. Almost all the google websites, except google search, work badly on anything except chrome. I mean, google groups is rotten already on chrome, but just try it on firefox for the full experience. Maps (the website) used to be a game-changer in the past. It was insanely fast. Nowdays I hate it. The UI is just horrid. On Firefox it just misbehaves constantly. I only use it for streetview, and still I'm appalled at how badly it has evolved. They are pushing still impressive libraries and tools. But there's not a single of their products I still like to use.

lentil_soup 8y ago
A bit of a side note, but we should avoid saying things like "not sure why people are surprised" or similar, like in a few other comments. It is true that Google has done this several times over, but we shouldn't normalize it as nothing new, move on. We should still call it out each and every time we see it, even if we are repeating ourselves. Also, what might be obvious to our community is not to those outside, which in the end are the majority.
- mtgx 8y ago
  Comments that say "this is not a surprise" have a strong subtext of "I told you so" and "I knew this all along, but you didn't", whether the author realizes it or not. They're usually made so the authors feel better about themselves, but they have a very negative effect on the rest of the community reading them as it gives them a sense of powerlessness. I always try to counteract such comments with 2 arguments: 1) it may not be news to you, but it's probably news for a lot of other people. Most people have their own real-world issues to think about, they don't wonder about for hours every day on what Google may be doing against them while utilizing Google's services. Most people are trusting and think company X (or their government) "wouldn't do evil thing Y" to them. Of course, they're usually wrong. Company X/government would absolutely do that evil thing Y to them if they are not vigilant or it benefits them monetarily or otherwise. 2) Something is still news if it happens again or it gets escalated to a higher degree of aggressiveness from that company X/government. Should we all hear about something evil Google has done once and be done with it? Then make our choice whether or not to trust them and use their services forever? Of course not. These things need a "build-up" period before a decision is made. This is why the expression "breaking the camel's back" exists, and it's what happened now with Chrome 69 and these new issues coming up. It's only now that people have said "Okay, are you f-king serious now, Google?! I've let your shit slide in the past, but no longer!"
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- drb91 8y ago
  > We should still call it out each and every time we see it, even if we are repeating ourselves. Seems like the right response would be to stop using the problem products. If you think you can't afford to, I hope you like Google. This is in no way surprising.
  - tjoff 8y ago
    Maybe not for the first offense. That's why we should repeat it.
  - leokennis 8y ago
    Yep. I’m not using Google for anything anymore and have to say, the inconvenience is very minor. The rest of the web still syncs fine (IMAP, CalDAV etc.) Only YouTube is irreplaceable, and you need an account to save videos and subscribe to channels. Luckily a throwaway Google account with BS info and a temporary backup e-mail address is easily created every 3 months.
    - rootkea 8y ago
      > Luckily a throwaway Google account with BS info and a temporary backup e-mail address is easily created every 3 months. Sigh! Google makes phone verification compulsory when you try to create the Google account (mandatory to use Google products).
jamesb93 8y ago
Maps is insanely laggy on my Xiaomi Redmi note 4x. THis is with the performance kernel configuration on with GPU running 100%. Its just horribly optimised and has so much clutter now. Does anyone know a decent alternative? (please don't say waze)
- dalai 8y ago
  I've heard good things about maps.me, but I've only used it briefly. The quality depends a lot on your location.
- MKinley 8y ago
  Have you tried Open Street Maps? You can get their app from F-droid. Edit: Maps (Offline OpenStreetMap maps) - https://f-droid.org/app/com.github.axet.maps https://f-droid.org/app/com.github.axet.maps
  - rmc 8y ago
    "Maps" is the Maps.me app but without the adverts and tracking. For the record OpenStreetMap doesn't have one official app. It doesn't even have any "official" apps. People use OSM data to make other maps.
  - taneq 8y ago
    I've been using OSMAnd+ for a while now and it's awesome. Offline maps, navigation with voice prompts, pretty much everything you expect, and it doesn't spam your location to a third party. Yay!
  - mrgreenfur 8y ago
    It's also available in the play store for $8.99. I just bought it to give it a try. Thanks for introducing it to me!
- opencl 8y ago
  HERE Maps or one of the OSM-based apps (maps.me, OsmAnd) depending on map quality where you live.
SuoDuanDao 8y ago
I feel the same way, and it makes me sad. I was so bullish on Google when I first got a job and investing my savings, bought into the company when it was still Google. I thought the rebrand to Alphabet was a good idea like everything Google, though their abandonment of 'Don't be Evil' planted the first seed of doubt. What made that doubt grow was that I use Youtube as a customer and... well. I'm sure you've seen the same decline. I finally divested this Spring after giving Google six months to come out with something that would reawaken my old optimism. Besides coming out with a mean go engine, all the news out of Google in that time was depressing. I'm frankly surprised at how easily a true believer like myself could do a one-eighty in their opinion of the company. I know there's a possibility that they turn this thing around and I look foolish, but they'd have to do that without my cheerleading.
- ubercow13 8y ago
  What's wrong with YouTube?
  - snarfy 8y ago
    Search for anything, watch the video, then watch the next recommended video. Keep following the recommendations. See where you end up. If you know exactly what you want to watch it's fine, but the whole browsing/surfing experience sucks.
    - ubercow13 8y ago
      I agree that if you leave it playing it will go off on a tangent, but I find the list of recommended videos along the right side to be _very_ good. It really does list things I would want to watch based off past viewing and what's currently playing. I find it to be the most useful (only useful?) recommendation engine in any product.
      - dx87 8y ago
        It's good at finding things you'd watch, but not necessarily things you should be watching. Ex-youtube employees said that the algorithm is trained to keep you engaged and watching videos, so the recommended videos keep getting more and more extreme. This isn't really an issue with music because it just ends up at more niche artists, but if you watch a political video and keep following its recommendations, eventually you end up wathcing extremist left/right wing propaganda. Sure, it's something you don't mind watching once you get there, but it's not necessarily something you would have wanted to watch before the youtube algorithm led you there. Again, this is how the algorithm was described by an ex-youtube employee, not just a casual user.
degenerate 8y ago
The new Gmail, Adwords, and Analytics run horribly slow in FF, so I have a separate Chromium portable installation simply for those pages. It's so annoying that Google only cares how their own products run in Chrome.
- josefresco 8y ago
  I can confirm that Google Ads and G Suite support reps ask you "what browser are you using?" as one of their first queries. The response in my head is always "why the fuck would that matter?" but what comes out of my mouth is usually "Chrome" even when it's Firefox because my issues have never, ever been browser related. Here's how it should go: Me: Hey support, feature X isn't working for me. Google: What browser are you using? Me: Firefox Google: Ok, thanks for reporting a bug in our software. We'll address the issue with Firefox and get back to you. What actually happens: Me: Hey support, feature X isn't working for me. Google: What browser are you using? Me: Firefox Google: Please use Google Chrome
- clubm8 8y ago
  > The new Gmail, Adwords, and Analytics run horribly slow in FF, so I have a separate Chromium portable installation simply for those pages. It's so annoying that Google only cares how their own products run in Chrome. Reminds me of when Microsoft used to optimize it's products for Windows and other OSs were an afterthought...
  - jhasse 8y ago
    That's still the case.
    - reitanqild 8y ago
      That might be but I'm using dotnet core and vscode on Linux now and except autocomplete being weaker than I'm used to in Java and config files being a mess, -both of which are true on Windows as well, I haven't found a single thing to complain about. And while I have stopped trusting MS (again) after their recent browser failure it seems they are very much trying to sell software and services on all platforms.
flyinghamster 8y ago
> Maps (the website) used to be a game-changer in the past. It was insanely fast. Nowdays I hate it. The UI is just horrid. On Firefox it just misbehaves constantly. No kidding there. If you leave it alone for a few minutes (that is, not scrolling, zooming, clicking anything), it will give you a Black Window of Death.
vagab0nd 8y ago
I completely agree on the Maps experience. These days I'm constantly annoyed by it. When I search for a place the map jumps around like crazy, causing me to lose track of my current focus area and my points of interest from previous search. Not to mention the hiccups on 3rd party browsers. There was a post on HN a while back which compares Google Maps with traditional paper maps. It had a lot of insights I wish I could find it.
- Taylor_OD 8y ago
  I use maps heavily for restaurant recommendations and tracking. This involves staring and tagging places all over Chicago. Maps will barely run on my phone at this point. I expect it to crash once or twice while I'm using it. I know I use the product in a memory heavily way but it's still very frustrating because I don't expect this to ever be addressed.
diminoten 8y ago
I am constantly and genuinely confused about why people care just so damn much about other people's privacy. What is it about privacy that bothers people so much more than the myriad of other violations that take place across the world, and what makes the fact that corporations are committing this sin so much worse than when individuals do it?

lentil_soup 8y ago

A bit of a side note, but we should avoid saying things like "not sure why people are surprised" or similar, like in a few other comments. It is true that Google has done this several times over, but we shouldn't normalize it as nothing new, move on. We should still call it out each and every time we see it, even if we are repeating ourselves. Also, what might be obvious to our community is not to those outside, which in the end are the majority.

mtgx 8y ago
Comments that say "this is not a surprise" have a strong subtext of "I told you so" and "I knew this all along, but you didn't", whether the author realizes it or not. They're usually made so the authors feel better about themselves, but they have a very negative effect on the rest of the community reading them as it gives them a sense of powerlessness. I always try to counteract such comments with 2 arguments: 1) it may not be news to you, but it's probably news for a lot of other people. Most people have their own real-world issues to think about, they don't wonder about for hours every day on what Google may be doing against them while utilizing Google's services. Most people are trusting and think company X (or their government) "wouldn't do evil thing Y" to them. Of course, they're usually wrong. Company X/government would absolutely do that evil thing Y to them if they are not vigilant or it benefits them monetarily or otherwise. 2) Something is still news if it happens again or it gets escalated to a higher degree of aggressiveness from that company X/government. Should we all hear about something evil Google has done once and be done with it? Then make our choice whether or not to trust them and use their services forever? Of course not. These things need a "build-up" period before a decision is made. This is why the expression "breaking the camel's back" exists, and it's what happened now with Chrome 69 and these new issues coming up. It's only now that people have said "Okay, are you f-king serious now, Google?! I've let your shit slide in the past, but no longer!"
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
drb91 8y ago
> We should still call it out each and every time we see it, even if we are repeating ourselves. Seems like the right response would be to stop using the problem products. If you think you can't afford to, I hope you like Google. This is in no way surprising.
- tjoff 8y ago
  Maybe not for the first offense. That's why we should repeat it.
- leokennis 8y ago
  Yep. I’m not using Google for anything anymore and have to say, the inconvenience is very minor. The rest of the web still syncs fine (IMAP, CalDAV etc.) Only YouTube is irreplaceable, and you need an account to save videos and subscribe to channels. Luckily a throwaway Google account with BS info and a temporary backup e-mail address is easily created every 3 months.
  - rootkea 8y ago
    > Luckily a throwaway Google account with BS info and a temporary backup e-mail address is easily created every 3 months. Sigh! Google makes phone verification compulsory when you try to create the Google account (mandatory to use Google products).

jamesb93 8y ago

Maps is insanely laggy on my Xiaomi Redmi note 4x. THis is with the performance kernel configuration on with GPU running 100%. Its just horribly optimised and has so much clutter now. Does anyone know a decent alternative? (please don't say waze)

dalai 8y ago
I've heard good things about maps.me, but I've only used it briefly. The quality depends a lot on your location.
MKinley 8y ago
Have you tried Open Street Maps? You can get their app from F-droid. Edit: Maps (Offline OpenStreetMap maps) - https://f-droid.org/app/com.github.axet.maps https://f-droid.org/app/com.github.axet.maps
- rmc 8y ago
  "Maps" is the Maps.me app but without the adverts and tracking. For the record OpenStreetMap doesn't have one official app. It doesn't even have any "official" apps. People use OSM data to make other maps.
- taneq 8y ago
  I've been using OSMAnd+ for a while now and it's awesome. Offline maps, navigation with voice prompts, pretty much everything you expect, and it doesn't spam your location to a third party. Yay!
- mrgreenfur 8y ago
  It's also available in the play store for $8.99. I just bought it to give it a try. Thanks for introducing it to me!
opencl 8y ago
HERE Maps or one of the OSM-based apps (maps.me, OsmAnd) depending on map quality where you live.

SuoDuanDao 8y ago

I feel the same way, and it makes me sad. I was so bullish on Google when I first got a job and investing my savings, bought into the company when it was still Google. I thought the rebrand to Alphabet was a good idea like everything Google, though their abandonment of 'Don't be Evil' planted the first seed of doubt. What made that doubt grow was that I use Youtube as a customer and... well. I'm sure you've seen the same decline. I finally divested this Spring after giving Google six months to come out with something that would reawaken my old optimism. Besides coming out with a mean go engine, all the news out of Google in that time was depressing. I'm frankly surprised at how easily a true believer like myself could do a one-eighty in their opinion of the company. I know there's a possibility that they turn this thing around and I look foolish, but they'd have to do that without my cheerleading.

ubercow13 8y ago
What's wrong with YouTube?
- snarfy 8y ago
  Search for anything, watch the video, then watch the next recommended video. Keep following the recommendations. See where you end up. If you know exactly what you want to watch it's fine, but the whole browsing/surfing experience sucks.
  - ubercow13 8y ago
    I agree that if you leave it playing it will go off on a tangent, but I find the list of recommended videos along the right side to be _very_ good. It really does list things I would want to watch based off past viewing and what's currently playing. I find it to be the most useful (only useful?) recommendation engine in any product.
    - dx87 8y ago
      It's good at finding things you'd watch, but not necessarily things you should be watching. Ex-youtube employees said that the algorithm is trained to keep you engaged and watching videos, so the recommended videos keep getting more and more extreme. This isn't really an issue with music because it just ends up at more niche artists, but if you watch a political video and keep following its recommendations, eventually you end up wathcing extremist left/right wing propaganda. Sure, it's something you don't mind watching once you get there, but it's not necessarily something you would have wanted to watch before the youtube algorithm led you there. Again, this is how the algorithm was described by an ex-youtube employee, not just a casual user.

degenerate 8y ago

The new Gmail, Adwords, and Analytics run horribly slow in FF, so I have a separate Chromium portable installation simply for those pages. It's so annoying that Google only cares how their own products run in Chrome.

josefresco 8y ago
I can confirm that Google Ads and G Suite support reps ask you "what browser are you using?" as one of their first queries. The response in my head is always "why the fuck would that matter?" but what comes out of my mouth is usually "Chrome" even when it's Firefox because my issues have never, ever been browser related. Here's how it should go: Me: Hey support, feature X isn't working for me. Google: What browser are you using? Me: Firefox Google: Ok, thanks for reporting a bug in our software. We'll address the issue with Firefox and get back to you. What actually happens: Me: Hey support, feature X isn't working for me. Google: What browser are you using? Me: Firefox Google: Please use Google Chrome
clubm8 8y ago
> The new Gmail, Adwords, and Analytics run horribly slow in FF, so I have a separate Chromium portable installation simply for those pages. It's so annoying that Google only cares how their own products run in Chrome. Reminds me of when Microsoft used to optimize it's products for Windows and other OSs were an afterthought...
- jhasse 8y ago
  That's still the case.
  - reitanqild 8y ago
    That might be but I'm using dotnet core and vscode on Linux now and except autocomplete being weaker than I'm used to in Java and config files being a mess, -both of which are true on Windows as well, I haven't found a single thing to complain about. And while I have stopped trusting MS (again) after their recent browser failure it seems they are very much trying to sell software and services on all platforms.

flyinghamster 8y ago

> Maps (the website) used to be a game-changer in the past. It was insanely fast. Nowdays I hate it. The UI is just horrid. On Firefox it just misbehaves constantly. No kidding there. If you leave it alone for a few minutes (that is, not scrolling, zooming, clicking anything), it will give you a Black Window of Death.

vagab0nd 8y ago

I completely agree on the Maps experience. These days I'm constantly annoyed by it. When I search for a place the map jumps around like crazy, causing me to lose track of my current focus area and my points of interest from previous search. Not to mention the hiccups on 3rd party browsers. There was a post on HN a while back which compares Google Maps with traditional paper maps. It had a lot of insights I wish I could find it.

Taylor_OD 8y ago
I use maps heavily for restaurant recommendations and tracking. This involves staring and tagging places all over Chicago. Maps will barely run on my phone at this point. I expect it to crash once or twice while I'm using it. I know I use the product in a memory heavily way but it's still very frustrating because I don't expect this to ever be addressed.

diminoten 8y ago

I am constantly and genuinely confused about why people care just so damn much about other people's privacy. What is it about privacy that bothers people so much more than the myriad of other violations that take place across the world, and what makes the fact that corporations are committing this sin so much worse than when individuals do it?