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> The cost of defying American sanctions can be steep: in 2015, BNP Paribas SA, the French bank, paid a penalty of almost $9 billion for violating U.S. sanctio

by grecy 8y ago

> The cost of defying American sanctions can be steep: in 2015, BNP Paribas SA, the French bank, paid a penalty of almost $9 billion for violating U.S. sanctions against Iran, Cuba and Sudan I'm cruious, who imposes that fine and how do they enforce payment? Can the US Government FORCE a French Bank to pay them a fine? Surely a French bank could just say "no thanks".

NeedMoreTea 8y ago
They're one of the world's largest banks with presence globally. Not only do they have presence in US financial centres they have US subsidiaries. Plenty of places to send the bailiffs to, or whatever the US equivalent is.
dagw 8y ago
Surely a French bank could just say "no thanks". Sure, and lose their banking license in the US and quite probably have their US assets seized.
qubax 8y ago
> I'm cruious, who imposes that fine The executive branch can ( via executive order, treasury sanctions, etc ) and of course congress can. > and how do they enforce payment? By threat of financial collapse. > Can the US Government FORCE a French Bank to pay them a fine? Yes and no. Are we going to invade france and force the bank to pay the fine? No. Could we threaten to place sanctions on the bank and exclude it from international financial system. Yes. > Surely a French bank could just say "no thanks". It can. But then it would immediately collapse. No international bank can survive a US sanction because the US runs the international finance system. There is reason why the swiss banking system submitted to US demands to turn over customer data a few years ago. Economic sanctions on switzerland would turn it into north korea or venezuela. People mistakenly think that US sanctions means that the US won't do business with a certain country. US sanctions means that everyone doing business with the US can't do business with a certain country. US sanctions essentially forces the world to choose between the US and country X. The US being the largest economy and the heart of the international financial system wins every time. It's why there is so much drama with US sanctions on iran. It's not that we won't do business with iran. It's that everyone who wants a business relationship with the US can't do business with iran.
- grecy 8y ago
  Thanks very much for the detailed answer, I had no idea how it worked. So it seems likely that nothing will change until the US is not the heart of the international financial system...

by grecy 8y ago

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

They're one of the world's largest banks with presence globally. Not only do they have presence in US financial centres they have US subsidiaries. Plenty of places to send the bailiffs to, or whatever the US equivalent is.

dagw 8y ago

Surely a French bank could just say "no thanks". Sure, and lose their banking license in the US and quite probably have their US assets seized.

qubax 8y ago

> I'm cruious, who imposes that fine The executive branch can ( via executive order, treasury sanctions, etc ) and of course congress can. > and how do they enforce payment? By threat of financial collapse. > Can the US Government FORCE a French Bank to pay them a fine? Yes and no. Are we going to invade france and force the bank to pay the fine? No. Could we threaten to place sanctions on the bank and exclude it from international financial system. Yes. > Surely a French bank could just say "no thanks". It can. But then it would immediately collapse. No international bank can survive a US sanction because the US runs the international finance system. There is reason why the swiss banking system submitted to US demands to turn over customer data a few years ago. Economic sanctions on switzerland would turn it into north korea or venezuela. People mistakenly think that US sanctions means that the US won't do business with a certain country. US sanctions means that everyone doing business with the US can't do business with a certain country. US sanctions essentially forces the world to choose between the US and country X. The US being the largest economy and the heart of the international financial system wins every time. It's why there is so much drama with US sanctions on iran. It's not that we won't do business with iran. It's that everyone who wants a business relationship with the US can't do business with iran.

grecy 8y ago
Thanks very much for the detailed answer, I had no idea how it worked. So it seems likely that nothing will change until the US is not the heart of the international financial system...