4 ms·

I wonder if at some point there is going to be a market for fully built kit cars - that is, newly built cars, but without electronics that phone home.

snaky 8y ago
By the 3x the cost of the same car - but with the source code (Linux 2.6.1 with binary blobs) for washer and wipers.
djsumdog 8y ago
I doubt there'd be a demand. We are the vocal minority here on HN. I think it's more likely people like us will buy older cars with non 4G/cell based head units.
- KumarAseem 8y ago
  We won't be able to buy such cars also in next 10-20 years as by then every manufacturer would have included partial or complete data gathering on their units. If they are doing it so should I so I can stay in business is the concept being followed. This can only be controlled through strict laws, and that is a sorry state of affairs anyway. :(
  - volkl48 8y ago
    Low volume manufacturers are exempt from a lot of regulations from what I know. So there'll probably always be a space for someone to make a low-tech car, just not to sell it by the hundreds of thousands.
  - bluGill 8y ago
    I see 30 year old cars on the road - daily drivers - reasonably often. They are probably maintained by the owner who now knows it inside and out. The average millionaire drives a 15 year old car that they bought new (According to "The millionaire next door"). If you actually maintain your car you will discover that they last a lot longer than most people give them credit for. Some years you put more than the car is worth into it, but other years just an oil change.
    - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
      Right, its not about if the repair is more expensive than the car. Its whether the repair is cheaper than the payments on an equivalent but newer car. Of course we all like a new car. But is it worth the extra money. Folks have a different threshold where they'll give up on ol Barney.
jakeogh 8y ago
This concern, "chipped cars" is going to be played over and over. It all goes to some variation on "(chipped) people are too X to have that responsibility aka write access to their chips". The closed hidden operating systems hiding in every baseband and major CPU are winning their war on general purpose computing. It's a problem. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18027736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18027736
gm-conspiracy 8y ago
Friend and I are fairly obsessed with "older" Dodge diesel trucks. By older, I mean early 90s. They have tripled in value in the last decade. Very minimal electronics (has an ECU, cruise control, power doorlocks and windows), and easy to work on. You can also buy salvaged Tesla parts and make your own vehicle... https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a30305/this-tesla-powered-kit-car-with-chevy-volt-batteries-is-a-modern-hot-rod/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a30305/this-...
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >Friend and I are fairly obsessed with "older" Dodge diesel trucks. So you hate getting a value for your money almost as much as the Toyota guys then? How are those cute miniature ball joints holding up? Frame splice rusted out yet? > They have tripled in value in the last decade. I think you mean that the 1000lb dowel eating turd with a stupidly stupidly thin cylinder head casting that occupies the space under the hood has tripled in value in the last decade. The trucks themselves are sub par. The increase in value is because all the ones that don't have a Cummins have long since been scrapped so the ones remaining are kinda, sorta worth a couple bucks. Regardless, Cummins 12v (and 24v) engines are so expensive that unless you can't read a wiring diagram or need weight up front for a pulling truck you're probably better served with a 6.0 LS (Yes I'm being intentionally contrarian here but you know there's a grain of truth in what I'm saying)
  - mywittyname 8y ago
    Neither of you are wrong.
- falcolas 8y ago
  Aah, yes, the pre-DEF diesel trucks. Quite possibly the one class of vehicle I'd be more than happy to see removed from the road with whatever legislative overreach required. Yeah, I'm kind of fed up with trucks spewing columns of foul-smelling black soot out of their tailpipes right at my car. Sorry if that makes me rude.
  - 8y ago
userbinator 8y ago
They're called "hot rods", and there's always been a small market for them. Depending on where you live the legal requirements to get one licensed vary from "easy" to "impossible", but it won't be cheap.
- 0xfeba 8y ago
  Home built vehicles can be registered just about anywhere as long as they have headlights, taillights, and a license plate light.
  - brokenmachine 8y ago
    No engineer's certificate?
- AngryData 8y ago
  It is only expensive if you make it expensive, car mechanics are not that complicated. It is only expensive if you either buy expensive parts or have somebody else do it for you because it takes time and they are taking on the liability of any modifications they did along with licensing requirements to do such things commercially.

snaky 8y ago

By the 3x the cost of the same car - but with the source code (Linux 2.6.1 with binary blobs) for washer and wipers.

djsumdog 8y ago

I doubt there'd be a demand. We are the vocal minority here on HN. I think it's more likely people like us will buy older cars with non 4G/cell based head units.

KumarAseem 8y ago
We won't be able to buy such cars also in next 10-20 years as by then every manufacturer would have included partial or complete data gathering on their units. If they are doing it so should I so I can stay in business is the concept being followed. This can only be controlled through strict laws, and that is a sorry state of affairs anyway. :(
- volkl48 8y ago
  Low volume manufacturers are exempt from a lot of regulations from what I know. So there'll probably always be a space for someone to make a low-tech car, just not to sell it by the hundreds of thousands.
- bluGill 8y ago
  I see 30 year old cars on the road - daily drivers - reasonably often. They are probably maintained by the owner who now knows it inside and out. The average millionaire drives a 15 year old car that they bought new (According to "The millionaire next door"). If you actually maintain your car you will discover that they last a lot longer than most people give them credit for. Some years you put more than the car is worth into it, but other years just an oil change.
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    Right, its not about if the repair is more expensive than the car. Its whether the repair is cheaper than the payments on an equivalent but newer car. Of course we all like a new car. But is it worth the extra money. Folks have a different threshold where they'll give up on ol Barney.

jakeogh 8y ago

This concern, "chipped cars" is going to be played over and over. It all goes to some variation on "(chipped) people are too X to have that responsibility aka write access to their chips". The closed hidden operating systems hiding in every baseband and major CPU are winning their war on general purpose computing. It's a problem. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18027736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18027736

gm-conspiracy 8y ago

Friend and I are fairly obsessed with "older" Dodge diesel trucks. By older, I mean early 90s. They have tripled in value in the last decade. Very minimal electronics (has an ECU, cruise control, power doorlocks and windows), and easy to work on. You can also buy salvaged Tesla parts and make your own vehicle... https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a30305/this-tesla-powered-kit-car-with-chevy-volt-batteries-is-a-modern-hot-rod/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a30305/this-...

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>Friend and I are fairly obsessed with "older" Dodge diesel trucks. So you hate getting a value for your money almost as much as the Toyota guys then? How are those cute miniature ball joints holding up? Frame splice rusted out yet? > They have tripled in value in the last decade. I think you mean that the 1000lb dowel eating turd with a stupidly stupidly thin cylinder head casting that occupies the space under the hood has tripled in value in the last decade. The trucks themselves are sub par. The increase in value is because all the ones that don't have a Cummins have long since been scrapped so the ones remaining are kinda, sorta worth a couple bucks. Regardless, Cummins 12v (and 24v) engines are so expensive that unless you can't read a wiring diagram or need weight up front for a pulling truck you're probably better served with a 6.0 LS (Yes I'm being intentionally contrarian here but you know there's a grain of truth in what I'm saying)
- mywittyname 8y ago
  Neither of you are wrong.
falcolas 8y ago
Aah, yes, the pre-DEF diesel trucks. Quite possibly the one class of vehicle I'd be more than happy to see removed from the road with whatever legislative overreach required. Yeah, I'm kind of fed up with trucks spewing columns of foul-smelling black soot out of their tailpipes right at my car. Sorry if that makes me rude.
- 8y ago

userbinator 8y ago

They're called "hot rods", and there's always been a small market for them. Depending on where you live the legal requirements to get one licensed vary from "easy" to "impossible", but it won't be cheap.

0xfeba 8y ago
Home built vehicles can be registered just about anywhere as long as they have headlights, taillights, and a license plate light.
- brokenmachine 8y ago
  No engineer's certificate?
AngryData 8y ago
It is only expensive if you make it expensive, car mechanics are not that complicated. It is only expensive if you either buy expensive parts or have somebody else do it for you because it takes time and they are taking on the liability of any modifications they did along with licensing requirements to do such things commercially.