8 ms·

I have no doubt this is a direct result of the feedback in the hacker news thread. Googlers read our comments and take them seriously when there is true merit.

by ben174 8y ago

I have no doubt this is a direct result of the feedback in the hacker news thread. Googlers read our comments and take them seriously when there is true merit. Keep making noise folks, it matters.

sriku 8y ago
However I'm disappointed that their response is essentially lip service to the highlighted problem. If I read the article correctly, the auto-signin will continue to be the default and you'll get an option to turn it off. This does not address the breach of trust issues highlighted in the thread and linked posts .. unless they're going to ask you about signing in to the browser before doing it. Also, the consequences of saying "yes" to that would continue to be unclear if one path leads to data sync and another path doesn't. Personally, browsers don't need users to signin. They can sync data laterally with other instances. I suppose Google hasn't heard of bonjour.
- aaaaaaaaaab 8y ago
  Bonjour aka zeroconf aka mDNS? How would it solve this issue?
sneak 8y ago
The noise was a distraction; the noisy were complaining about sync, which the change did not enable without an additional consent, as always.
- dannyw 8y ago
  Even the linked article on HN was more about the implications of this change - without any notice. It removed one wall of protection that users who didn't want Sync had. Many people _purposefully_ don't want to sign into Chrome. The change suddenly signed them in, without notice or confirmation. That's problematic.
- _wmd 8y ago
  I set up Chrome remote desktop for a family member today, and absolutely sync is enabled simply by signing in. Sure, it presents "Undo" after the fact, but on visiting the associated Google account, it had already copied everything. I have NFC where this article sourced "sync isn't automatic", but it clearly is. Zero UI indicator it's happening until the Undo button appears, by which time you've already been ripped off. Nice to at least see they're making it opt-out, but the damage has already been done.
  - dlubarov 8y ago
    I haven't used Chrome Remote Desktop recently. What exactly were you doing when sync turned on? I've been using Gmail without signing into Chrome. Post-update, I am signed in, but sync is still off.
  - Zarel 8y ago
    I tested this literally yesterday, created a new Chrome profile, logged in, and it didn't automatically turn on Sync. I just tested again now, and took screenshots this time, and once again, it didn't automatically turn on Sync. https://imgur.com/a/ceShKkl https://imgur.com/a/ceShKkl
- zorpner 8y ago
  This is a strawman -- many, many people were aware that this change did not enable sync for existing accounts, and were concerned regardless. Matthew Green does an excellent job articulating all of the reasons why this is a terrible change, and specifically notes that sync is not among them: https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2018/09/23/why-im-leaving-chrome/ https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2018/09/23/why-im-l...
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
mtgx 8y ago
> when there is true merit I wouldn't use those words. I would replace that with "when the backlash is large enough" Also I read several comments in that thread about how all of that feedback was pointless because the "vast majority of users don't care." This type of comments always come up after anything a bad company does. You don't need the majority of users to force a change. In fact no movement ever starts with a majority. That said, Google can no longer be trusted not to screw over Chrome users in the future. Trying to track users this aggressively and then only backing down after a large backlash doesn't really tell me that Google will be playing nice from now on.
ericabiz 8y ago
Agreed. Now: does Mozilla read these? I tried to switch to Firefox, but was stymied by a bug where Firefox consumes 100%+ CPU on MacBook Pro Retinas. Firefox is basically unusable with this bug; Facebook takes forever to load, and even Reddit r/firefox shows "A webpage is slowing down your browser" bar at the top. Active relevant bugs are here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1404042 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1404042 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1429522 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1429522 But apparently this has been going on for 2+ years and Mozilla hasn't been able to fix it. Given rMBPs (I would think) would be a fairly large market share of people who work at Mozilla or use Firefox, it's both concerning and surprising that a bug of this proportion has gone on so long. Edit: Jeff from Mozilla has reached out. I sent him a perf log and a screenshot. Tracking here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1494186 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1494186
- eslaught 8y ago
  I don't know exactly what conditions are required to reproduce the bug, but it clearly does not apply to all rMBPs. I'm on a 15-inch 2016 rMBP and have been using Firefox on it successfully since I got it. Before that I spent a couple months on a 2013 rMBP, also no problems. Edit: For people who want to compare notes: High Sierra 10.13.6, Firefox 62.0.2, resolution is set to "Default for display" (which I think does mean it's doing interpolation of some sort). Automatic graphics switching is enabled. I don't have any trouble watching YouTube videos.
  - ericabiz 8y ago
    It happens when you set your rMBP display to "Scaled" in display preferences, which is what most developers do. (Edit to your edit: Try the "More Space" option in your display preferences! It's amazing.)
    - thom_nic 8y ago
      I tried this as well, can't reproduce. I've got a 15" "late 2013" rMBP, set display options to "more space." I've got a total of 45 tabs open between a couple different windows (I use the userChrome hack to re-enable multiple tab rows.) Cycled between tabs, refreshed, navigated around FB, GMail, etc. Can't get the CPU to do anything out of the ordinary.
xvf22 8y ago
This was the last push I needed to totally switch to Firefox. U2F works and I'm using containers which makes me happy.
verelo 8y ago
Alas, we're still losing Inbox.
BugsJustFindMe 8y ago
Counterpoint, we shouldn't fucking have to. They should fucking know not to keep google cookies around when you explicitly say to clear cookies. It's that whole "don't be evil" motto that they completely abandoned a decade ago.
jiveturkey 8y ago
not a chance. they saw a sharp spike in conversions to FF. if they cared about the HN opinion, they’d never have implemented this in the first place.
anoplus 8y ago
They have to realize its not just about the auth cookies, its about ethics, and it should be reflected in the entire product line. Using Firefox and DuckDuckGo now because I appreciate better ethics. Honestly I become more and more aware recently.

by ben174 8y ago

I have no doubt this is a direct result of the feedback in the hacker news thread. Googlers read our comments and take them seriously when there is true merit. Keep making noise folks, it matters.

sriku 8y ago

However I'm disappointed that their response is essentially lip service to the highlighted problem. If I read the article correctly, the auto-signin will continue to be the default and you'll get an option to turn it off. This does not address the breach of trust issues highlighted in the thread and linked posts .. unless they're going to ask you about signing in to the browser before doing it. Also, the consequences of saying "yes" to that would continue to be unclear if one path leads to data sync and another path doesn't. Personally, browsers don't need users to signin. They can sync data laterally with other instances. I suppose Google hasn't heard of bonjour.

aaaaaaaaaab 8y ago
Bonjour aka zeroconf aka mDNS? How would it solve this issue?

sneak 8y ago

The noise was a distraction; the noisy were complaining about sync, which the change did not enable without an additional consent, as always.

dannyw 8y ago
Even the linked article on HN was more about the implications of this change - without any notice. It removed one wall of protection that users who didn't want Sync had. Many people _purposefully_ don't want to sign into Chrome. The change suddenly signed them in, without notice or confirmation. That's problematic.
_wmd 8y ago
I set up Chrome remote desktop for a family member today, and absolutely sync is enabled simply by signing in. Sure, it presents "Undo" after the fact, but on visiting the associated Google account, it had already copied everything. I have NFC where this article sourced "sync isn't automatic", but it clearly is. Zero UI indicator it's happening until the Undo button appears, by which time you've already been ripped off. Nice to at least see they're making it opt-out, but the damage has already been done.
- dlubarov 8y ago
  I haven't used Chrome Remote Desktop recently. What exactly were you doing when sync turned on? I've been using Gmail without signing into Chrome. Post-update, I am signed in, but sync is still off.
- Zarel 8y ago
  I tested this literally yesterday, created a new Chrome profile, logged in, and it didn't automatically turn on Sync. I just tested again now, and took screenshots this time, and once again, it didn't automatically turn on Sync. https://imgur.com/a/ceShKkl https://imgur.com/a/ceShKkl
zorpner 8y ago
This is a strawman -- many, many people were aware that this change did not enable sync for existing accounts, and were concerned regardless. Matthew Green does an excellent job articulating all of the reasons why this is a terrible change, and specifically notes that sync is not among them: https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2018/09/23/why-im-leaving-chrome/ https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2018/09/23/why-im-l...

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

mtgx 8y ago

> when there is true merit I wouldn't use those words. I would replace that with "when the backlash is large enough" Also I read several comments in that thread about how all of that feedback was pointless because the "vast majority of users don't care." This type of comments always come up after anything a bad company does. You don't need the majority of users to force a change. In fact no movement ever starts with a majority. That said, Google can no longer be trusted not to screw over Chrome users in the future. Trying to track users this aggressively and then only backing down after a large backlash doesn't really tell me that Google will be playing nice from now on.

ericabiz 8y ago

Agreed. Now: does Mozilla read these? I tried to switch to Firefox, but was stymied by a bug where Firefox consumes 100%+ CPU on MacBook Pro Retinas. Firefox is basically unusable with this bug; Facebook takes forever to load, and even Reddit r/firefox shows "A webpage is slowing down your browser" bar at the top. Active relevant bugs are here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1404042 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1404042 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1429522 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1429522 But apparently this has been going on for 2+ years and Mozilla hasn't been able to fix it. Given rMBPs (I would think) would be a fairly large market share of people who work at Mozilla or use Firefox, it's both concerning and surprising that a bug of this proportion has gone on so long. Edit: Jeff from Mozilla has reached out. I sent him a perf log and a screenshot. Tracking here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1494186 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1494186

eslaught 8y ago
I don't know exactly what conditions are required to reproduce the bug, but it clearly does not apply to all rMBPs. I'm on a 15-inch 2016 rMBP and have been using Firefox on it successfully since I got it. Before that I spent a couple months on a 2013 rMBP, also no problems. Edit: For people who want to compare notes: High Sierra 10.13.6, Firefox 62.0.2, resolution is set to "Default for display" (which I think does mean it's doing interpolation of some sort). Automatic graphics switching is enabled. I don't have any trouble watching YouTube videos.
- ericabiz 8y ago
  It happens when you set your rMBP display to "Scaled" in display preferences, which is what most developers do. (Edit to your edit: Try the "More Space" option in your display preferences! It's amazing.)
  - thom_nic 8y ago
    I tried this as well, can't reproduce. I've got a 15" "late 2013" rMBP, set display options to "more space." I've got a total of 45 tabs open between a couple different windows (I use the userChrome hack to re-enable multiple tab rows.) Cycled between tabs, refreshed, navigated around FB, GMail, etc. Can't get the CPU to do anything out of the ordinary.

xvf22 8y ago

This was the last push I needed to totally switch to Firefox. U2F works and I'm using containers which makes me happy.

verelo 8y ago

Alas, we're still losing Inbox.

BugsJustFindMe 8y ago

Counterpoint, we shouldn't fucking have to. They should fucking know not to keep google cookies around when you explicitly say to clear cookies. It's that whole "don't be evil" motto that they completely abandoned a decade ago.

jiveturkey 8y ago

not a chance. they saw a sharp spike in conversions to FF. if they cared about the HN opinion, they’d never have implemented this in the first place.

anoplus 8y ago

They have to realize its not just about the auth cookies, its about ethics, and it should be reflected in the entire product line. Using Firefox and DuckDuckGo now because I appreciate better ethics. Honestly I become more and more aware recently.