8 ms·

This is possible and actually pretty trivial. You install all 3rd party dependencies into some directory. The command line entry point is then a simple BASH s

This is possible and actually pretty trivial. You install all 3rd party dependencies into some directory. The command line entry point is then a simple BASH script which sets the PYTHONPATH to the appropriate installation location and then does the appropriate exec call. You then have a functionally portable python installation.

rtpg 8y ago
in the ideal, those making the tools would provide this packaging, instead of asking all users to have `pip` properly set up. Similar issues exist w/r/t npm in my opinion.
orf 8y ago
Isn't this just a hacky virtualenv? 'python3 -mvenv dir && ./dir/bin/pip install requirements'?
- jofer 8y ago
  There are a lot of minor differences, but the biggest difference is that you're able to be completely independent of the system python install. You bundle a complete python interpreter, all libraries needed, etc. The user doesn't need to have python installed at all, and if they have 2.x instead of 3.x or 3.3 when you're expecting features that are only present in >= 3.5, it's no issue. This may sound trivial, but it's a _huge_ deal, particularly when you need to deploy something that runs on multiple different OSes and versions of OSes. Other than that, the "directory full of libs, binaries, and code" approach is a lot easier to package into something that will work well with the native package manager (e.g. an .msi for windows, etc).
lugg 8y ago
Pretty trivial? Really? I think as soon as you start writing all caps trivial has gone right out the window. Trivial would be application dependencies managed by the system package manager. I'm at the point where I won't touch a python app or library that can't be installed via Pacman. It's just not worth my time. And... python is still the only thing on arch that gives me the shits everytime it upgrades.
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  This exchange is a good demonstration that the word "trivial" has lost its meaning in the same way "literal" has. Much like I usually hear someone use term "literally" for figurative emphasis, these days I mostly hear the word "trivial" used to describe something which is clearly nontrivial. Math textbooks have been doing this for decades, but it's leaked into common parlance with online discussion.
  - ezequiel-garzon 8y ago
    I believe in the mathematical community the potentially offensive term for outsiders is non-trivial, used in a technically correct manner, but oftentimes applied as synonymous of epically hard, which unexpectedly throws people off, especially the author of that non-trivial work!
  - CogitoCogito 8y ago
    I think the best translation of "trivial" when used amongst mathematicians is that it is something you should be able to figure out with your current knowledge without too much difficulty (though it might require an hour of thought). Said in another way, you don't need to learn/develop new tools or techniques for something that is trivial. Of course this is not when most people think when they hear the word so really it's a term of art that should probably be avoided when talking to non-mathematicians.
    - Ntrails 8y ago
      > I think the best translation of "trivial" when used amongst mathematicians is that it is something you should be able to figure out with your current knowledge without too much difficulty As i read through my old uni maths notes there are often wild leaps from a to e along with a little scrawl saying "trivially" or "obviously". They may have been true once, but god dammit 21 year old me was a knobber
- NLips 8y ago
  Being charitable, I think the parent means that the python developer sticks all the dependencies in a directory and creates a bash script to set PYTHONPATH and launch. The user receives a directory rather than an executable, but only has to use the bash script, rather than worry about any of the Python in the directory.

rtpg 8y ago

in the ideal, those making the tools would provide this packaging, instead of asking all users to have `pip` properly set up. Similar issues exist w/r/t npm in my opinion.

orf 8y ago

Isn't this just a hacky virtualenv? 'python3 -mvenv dir && ./dir/bin/pip install requirements'?

jofer 8y ago
There are a lot of minor differences, but the biggest difference is that you're able to be completely independent of the system python install. You bundle a complete python interpreter, all libraries needed, etc. The user doesn't need to have python installed at all, and if they have 2.x instead of 3.x or 3.3 when you're expecting features that are only present in >= 3.5, it's no issue. This may sound trivial, but it's a _huge_ deal, particularly when you need to deploy something that runs on multiple different OSes and versions of OSes. Other than that, the "directory full of libs, binaries, and code" approach is a lot easier to package into something that will work well with the native package manager (e.g. an .msi for windows, etc).

lugg 8y ago

Pretty trivial? Really? I think as soon as you start writing all caps trivial has gone right out the window. Trivial would be application dependencies managed by the system package manager. I'm at the point where I won't touch a python app or library that can't be installed via Pacman. It's just not worth my time. And... python is still the only thing on arch that gives me the shits everytime it upgrades.

throwawaymath 8y ago
This exchange is a good demonstration that the word "trivial" has lost its meaning in the same way "literal" has. Much like I usually hear someone use term "literally" for figurative emphasis, these days I mostly hear the word "trivial" used to describe something which is clearly nontrivial. Math textbooks have been doing this for decades, but it's leaked into common parlance with online discussion.
- ezequiel-garzon 8y ago
  I believe in the mathematical community the potentially offensive term for outsiders is non-trivial, used in a technically correct manner, but oftentimes applied as synonymous of epically hard, which unexpectedly throws people off, especially the author of that non-trivial work!
- CogitoCogito 8y ago
  I think the best translation of "trivial" when used amongst mathematicians is that it is something you should be able to figure out with your current knowledge without too much difficulty (though it might require an hour of thought). Said in another way, you don't need to learn/develop new tools or techniques for something that is trivial. Of course this is not when most people think when they hear the word so really it's a term of art that should probably be avoided when talking to non-mathematicians.
  - Ntrails 8y ago
    > I think the best translation of "trivial" when used amongst mathematicians is that it is something you should be able to figure out with your current knowledge without too much difficulty As i read through my old uni maths notes there are often wild leaps from a to e along with a little scrawl saying "trivially" or "obviously". They may have been true once, but god dammit 21 year old me was a knobber
NLips 8y ago
Being charitable, I think the parent means that the python developer sticks all the dependencies in a directory and creates a bash script to set PYTHONPATH and launch. The user receives a directory rather than an executable, but only has to use the bash script, rather than worry about any of the Python in the directory.