5 ms·

> applications that ran in a web browser and didn't need an operating system to run Huh? The web browser/JVM certainly needed an operating system to run, and b

> applications that ran in a web browser and didn't need an operating system to run Huh? The web browser/JVM certainly needed an operating system to run, and by extension the applets did too.

twic 8y ago
I think the point is that they weren't tied to a particular operating system. If someone wrote an application as an applet, they could sell it to customers who had Windows, or who had Solaris. They could, to coin a phrase, write once, run anywhere.
- nineteen999 8y ago
  As long as "anywhere" meant Windows and Solaris. There were a lot more commercial operating systems in those days (eg. Tru64, SCO, HP-UX, OpenVMS, AIX, Linux, QNX, Classic MacOS etc), many or most of which didn't get a JVM/JRE until much later. I wonder if any significant amount of money was ever made from selling Java applets. I can't remember the last time I saw one in the wild.
  - rsynnott 8y ago
    Java 1.0 was available for MacOS. But yeah, platform support wasn’t great for a while.
    - nineteen999 8y ago
      After 1.0 even the Mac lagged pretty significantly. http://www.javaworld.com/jw-07-1997/jw-07-javamac.html http://www.javaworld.com/jw-07-1997/jw-07-javamac.html
pjmlp 8y ago
Not on JavaOS and bare metal JVMs, where the VM is the OS.
- nineteen999 8y ago
  JavaOS was DOA and end-of-lifed in 1999. Superseded by J2ME, which didn't support applets, as least not without an application-specific loader, or within a web browser AFAIK. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that Java applets on bare metal never took off. As has been pointed out in another response, "running Java applets without an OS or browser" was not exactly the intent of the OP's words in any instance.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    You are missing the embedded and factory automation market, blu ray players, cable TV boxes, where plenty of JVM vendors are happily selling bare metal JVMs. The ones that never had any issue with either Sun or Oracle, because they always played by the license rules.
    - nineteen999 8y ago
      I'm not missing anything. You can keep moving the goal posts all you want. The conversation was about applets, running in a web browser, and how a browser AND the the JVM's available at Java's release, did or didn't require an operating system to run. Embedded Java is not "applets". Nobody is denying that there is billions of devices running client side Java code. https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2443810/oracle-signals-the-end-of-java-applet-support-for-browsers https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2443810/oracle-signals-the-e...
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        > The web browser/JVM certainly needed an operating system to run, and by extension the applets did too. Not moving goal post at all "JVM certainly needed an operating system to run".
        nineteen999 8y ago
        It certainly did at the time that Java was released, which was the context I was commenting in (ie. "needed", not "needs") - the original HotJava browser (1994) or Netscape 2.x (1995) with builtin Java applet support, before it was later moved to a plugin. JavaOS wasn't released until later (1996). And Wikipedia classifies it as an "operating system with a Java virtual machine as a fundamental component". The clue is in the name.

> applications that ran in a web browser and didn't need an operating system to run Huh? The web browser/JVM certainly needed an operating system to run, and by extension the applets did too.

twic 8y ago

I think the point is that they weren't tied to a particular operating system. If someone wrote an application as an applet, they could sell it to customers who had Windows, or who had Solaris. They could, to coin a phrase, write once, run anywhere.

nineteen999 8y ago
As long as "anywhere" meant Windows and Solaris. There were a lot more commercial operating systems in those days (eg. Tru64, SCO, HP-UX, OpenVMS, AIX, Linux, QNX, Classic MacOS etc), many or most of which didn't get a JVM/JRE until much later. I wonder if any significant amount of money was ever made from selling Java applets. I can't remember the last time I saw one in the wild.
- rsynnott 8y ago
  Java 1.0 was available for MacOS. But yeah, platform support wasn’t great for a while.
  - nineteen999 8y ago
    After 1.0 even the Mac lagged pretty significantly. http://www.javaworld.com/jw-07-1997/jw-07-javamac.html http://www.javaworld.com/jw-07-1997/jw-07-javamac.html

pjmlp 8y ago

Not on JavaOS and bare metal JVMs, where the VM is the OS.

nineteen999 8y ago
JavaOS was DOA and end-of-lifed in 1999. Superseded by J2ME, which didn't support applets, as least not without an application-specific loader, or within a web browser AFAIK. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that Java applets on bare metal never took off. As has been pointed out in another response, "running Java applets without an OS or browser" was not exactly the intent of the OP's words in any instance.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  You are missing the embedded and factory automation market, blu ray players, cable TV boxes, where plenty of JVM vendors are happily selling bare metal JVMs. The ones that never had any issue with either Sun or Oracle, because they always played by the license rules.
  - nineteen999 8y ago
    I'm not missing anything. You can keep moving the goal posts all you want. The conversation was about applets, running in a web browser, and how a browser AND the the JVM's available at Java's release, did or didn't require an operating system to run. Embedded Java is not "applets". Nobody is denying that there is billions of devices running client side Java code. https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2443810/oracle-signals-the-end-of-java-applet-support-for-browsers https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2443810/oracle-signals-the-e...
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      > The web browser/JVM certainly needed an operating system to run, and by extension the applets did too. Not moving goal post at all "JVM certainly needed an operating system to run".
      - nineteen999 8y ago
        It certainly did at the time that Java was released, which was the context I was commenting in (ie. "needed", not "needs") - the original HotJava browser (1994) or Netscape 2.x (1995) with builtin Java applet support, before it was later moved to a plugin. JavaOS wasn't released until later (1996). And Wikipedia classifies it as an "operating system with a Java virtual machine as a fundamental component". The clue is in the name.