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I think about this from time-to-time. My partner and I know we couldn't afford children now, though she's constantly ..."noticing the clock ticking". I'd like

I think about this from time-to-time. My partner and I know we couldn't afford children now, though she's constantly ..."noticing the clock ticking". I'd like children some day. But what makes me snicker is it sounds exactly like the beginning of Idiocracy.

sakopov 8y ago
That movie got a heck of a lot right. Still amusingly scary at times.
- Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
  Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/603/ https://xkcd.com/603/
  - x220 8y ago
    That comic is fake news. I can't find the source, but the Economist made a pretty good graph with good data demonstrating that when you control for certain factors, poor people and people with measured below average IQ definitely are more likely to have children. I saw the graph I'm referring to a couple years ago on the Economist website.
    - AWildC182 8y ago
      I think you're missing the point of the comic. Yes, it's absolutely possible that you could measure this effect but worrying about it won't help and attempting to "fix" it will almost certainly backfire in hilarious and/or terrifying ways. See China.
      - x220 8y ago
        You avoid China by not forcing people to do things they do not want to do. Here's a likely way to reverse the trend: give free birth control and abortions (no questions asked), government subsidized child care, government subsidized college tuition, and higher tax incentives for marriage and having children. The largest obstacle for rich and generally high IQ women to having children is lack of money and lack of practical child care. A huge reason that poor people and generally low IQ people tend to have more children is lack of sex education and lack of access to birth control and contraceptives. This is a completely peaceful, non-violent way to reverse the trend. And just so we are clear, this assumes that you already think that humans who tend to be rich or have high IQ scores have genes worth propagating. It's not hard to avoid Chinese atrocities when you keep yourself from thinking that you are so justified that people should be forced to live the way you think is correct.
        Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
        > The largest obstacle for rich and generally high IQ women to having children is lack of money wat
    - watwut 8y ago
      In the past, poor classes had more children then rich. Nothing new about it. Which is what comic says.
      - x220 8y ago
        And because society hasn't collapsed yet, things are fine? Adaptation doesn't take effect that quickly, but it still takes effect. Maybe we will only see brain size decrease in a few thousand years (that is, if you believe in the assumptions).
- smegger001 8y ago
  I would trade President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho for Trump any day. At least Mr Dwayne tried to appoint the smartest people available (the protagonist). There is even a argument that Idiocracy is a utopia. https://youtu.be/OmZOZjHjT5E https://youtu.be/OmZOZjHjT5E
aceon48 8y ago
And Federal Reserve officials laugh when people suggest their policies and currency debasement causes declining birth rates. Their inflationary policies and increasing cost to live absolutely affect the ability and willingness of people to have children.
- pmiller2 8y ago
  I don’t think 3% inflation is affecting anybody’s willingness to have children. Do you have a source for that?
  - x220 8y ago
    3% isn't much, but over, say, 20 years of constant 3% inflation, that's 80% inflation total. Now this is just a quick math example and it's not the real situation, but it goes to demonstrate that over time inflation has a large effect. You could argue that over time this huge effect of inflation along with the stagnation of wages makes it so that people can't support previous standards of living, including supporting children. That's just my two cents--I haven't taken a single class on macroeconomics.
    - pmiller2 8y ago
      Real wages (inflation adjusted) have been stagnant. Nominal wages have gone up at roughly the rate of inflation for the most part since the mid 1970s.
      - x220 8y ago
        Thanks for correcting me.
- 52-6F-62 8y ago
  On some significantly higher level you might have some aspects correct, there. That said— I'm Canadian.
module0000 8y ago
Be careful - there is no undo button. A lot of us on the other side encouraging you to have kids can be explained by an old adage..."misery loves company". YMMV.
- sulam 8y ago
  Speaking as someone with two kids, they're a LOT of work. They have measurably decreased my lifespan (if nothing else, they do that simply from the reduction in sleep quality). I happily tell people not to have kids. Of course, the ones that should have kids ignore me completely. :)
- 52-6F-62 8y ago
  Heheh. I don't mind that so much. But I think I've done a good job of convincing myself that there's a certain baseline condition I'd like to be in to start seriously considering it. We've sadly even waffled enough on getting a dog for, a) Financial reasons. If we can't take the dog to the office, then we would end up paying the few hundred dollars a month or whatever people charge around here to walk them. (one of my colleagues pays ~$400/month! He must be paid substantially more than I am...) b) Time. Again, if we can't take it with us then we get a little time after work and some weekends. c) Space. Living in an apartment feels kind of unfair to the dog. I don't know how some people live in these buildings with a couple of mastiffs or whatever. Just outlining that felt kind of sad. And if we can't settle on figuring that out yet, then children are further off than I'd like.
  - fosco 8y ago
    having a kid will never come at a convenient time. idiocracy is real. be doggy grandparents (wife and I prefer this over owning), they are distracting to own and more travel prohibitive than kids.
    - 52-6F-62 8y ago
      I hear you, but I think we're different people in that way. I grew up with dogs— I need a dog. I just can't go for it if I know the situation wouldn't work well for the dog.

sakopov 8y ago

That movie got a heck of a lot right. Still amusingly scary at times.

Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/603/ https://xkcd.com/603/
- x220 8y ago
  That comic is fake news. I can't find the source, but the Economist made a pretty good graph with good data demonstrating that when you control for certain factors, poor people and people with measured below average IQ definitely are more likely to have children. I saw the graph I'm referring to a couple years ago on the Economist website.
  - AWildC182 8y ago
    I think you're missing the point of the comic. Yes, it's absolutely possible that you could measure this effect but worrying about it won't help and attempting to "fix" it will almost certainly backfire in hilarious and/or terrifying ways. See China.
    - x220 8y ago
      You avoid China by not forcing people to do things they do not want to do. Here's a likely way to reverse the trend: give free birth control and abortions (no questions asked), government subsidized child care, government subsidized college tuition, and higher tax incentives for marriage and having children. The largest obstacle for rich and generally high IQ women to having children is lack of money and lack of practical child care. A huge reason that poor people and generally low IQ people tend to have more children is lack of sex education and lack of access to birth control and contraceptives. This is a completely peaceful, non-violent way to reverse the trend. And just so we are clear, this assumes that you already think that humans who tend to be rich or have high IQ scores have genes worth propagating. It's not hard to avoid Chinese atrocities when you keep yourself from thinking that you are so justified that people should be forced to live the way you think is correct.
      - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
        > The largest obstacle for rich and generally high IQ women to having children is lack of money wat
  - watwut 8y ago
    In the past, poor classes had more children then rich. Nothing new about it. Which is what comic says.
    - x220 8y ago
      And because society hasn't collapsed yet, things are fine? Adaptation doesn't take effect that quickly, but it still takes effect. Maybe we will only see brain size decrease in a few thousand years (that is, if you believe in the assumptions).
smegger001 8y ago
I would trade President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho for Trump any day. At least Mr Dwayne tried to appoint the smartest people available (the protagonist). There is even a argument that Idiocracy is a utopia. https://youtu.be/OmZOZjHjT5E https://youtu.be/OmZOZjHjT5E

aceon48 8y ago

And Federal Reserve officials laugh when people suggest their policies and currency debasement causes declining birth rates. Their inflationary policies and increasing cost to live absolutely affect the ability and willingness of people to have children.

pmiller2 8y ago
I don’t think 3% inflation is affecting anybody’s willingness to have children. Do you have a source for that?
- x220 8y ago
  3% isn't much, but over, say, 20 years of constant 3% inflation, that's 80% inflation total. Now this is just a quick math example and it's not the real situation, but it goes to demonstrate that over time inflation has a large effect. You could argue that over time this huge effect of inflation along with the stagnation of wages makes it so that people can't support previous standards of living, including supporting children. That's just my two cents--I haven't taken a single class on macroeconomics.
  - pmiller2 8y ago
    Real wages (inflation adjusted) have been stagnant. Nominal wages have gone up at roughly the rate of inflation for the most part since the mid 1970s.
    - x220 8y ago
      Thanks for correcting me.
52-6F-62 8y ago
On some significantly higher level you might have some aspects correct, there. That said— I'm Canadian.

module0000 8y ago

Be careful - there is no undo button. A lot of us on the other side encouraging you to have kids can be explained by an old adage..."misery loves company". YMMV.

sulam 8y ago
Speaking as someone with two kids, they're a LOT of work. They have measurably decreased my lifespan (if nothing else, they do that simply from the reduction in sleep quality). I happily tell people not to have kids. Of course, the ones that should have kids ignore me completely. :)
52-6F-62 8y ago
Heheh. I don't mind that so much. But I think I've done a good job of convincing myself that there's a certain baseline condition I'd like to be in to start seriously considering it. We've sadly even waffled enough on getting a dog for, a) Financial reasons. If we can't take the dog to the office, then we would end up paying the few hundred dollars a month or whatever people charge around here to walk them. (one of my colleagues pays ~$400/month! He must be paid substantially more than I am...) b) Time. Again, if we can't take it with us then we get a little time after work and some weekends. c) Space. Living in an apartment feels kind of unfair to the dog. I don't know how some people live in these buildings with a couple of mastiffs or whatever. Just outlining that felt kind of sad. And if we can't settle on figuring that out yet, then children are further off than I'd like.
- fosco 8y ago
  having a kid will never come at a convenient time. idiocracy is real. be doggy grandparents (wife and I prefer this over owning), they are distracting to own and more travel prohibitive than kids.
  - 52-6F-62 8y ago
    I hear you, but I think we're different people in that way. I grew up with dogs— I need a dog. I just can't go for it if I know the situation wouldn't work well for the dog.