5 ms·

and in the US, our only option is the smart fortwo, which is starts at $25K. granted, it's better engineered, but i doubt it's 16 times better.

syntaxing 8y ago
It actually might be better than 16x...Engineering (especially mechanical) takes a lot of time and upfront money. For instant, the smart car has a highly rated roll cage for safety [1]. It takes a lot of time and money to design and get certifications. Companies need to recover their cost somehow and make a profit. [1] https://auto.howstuffworks.com/smart-car1.htm https://auto.howstuffworks.com/smart-car1.htm
- kurthr 8y ago
  Exactly, if your medical bills can easily exceed the cost of the car, safety should be a bigger concern.
devy 8y ago
I am not sure if it's true or not but I have anecdotally heard from a local car dealer that exported large volumes of compliance EVs to EU telling me that Mercedes actually owns the lithium battery in the Smart fortwo eletric drive as a purchaser you are "leasing" the lithium ion battery. So the actually cost of the vehicle is more like upper bound of 30k, close to 40k range, far exceeding the MSRP.
jaclaz 8y ago
In Europe smaller "cars" (they are not actually cars) do exist, they are limited in speed/power (they can be electric or gasoline or diesel) to be compliant to the Law and they can be driven (it depends I believe in which states) either without license or with a "simplified" driving license that you can get as early as 14 years (or 16 years for the more performing types). BUT they tend to be very expensive (when compared to what they offer) and - basically - are mainly "toys" for rich kids or in some cases, used by people that for one reason or the other cannot have a "full" driving license. Only as an example/reference: https://www.aixam.com/en/ https://www.aixam.com/en/
- mlinksva 8y ago
  Very interesting. https://www.aixam.com/en/range/discover/legislation https://www.aixam.com/en/range/discover/legislation has some legal background. Is there anything similar in the US? Brings to mind some retirement communities such as Celebration, FL, where golf carts apparently outnumber cars. IMO it ought be much harder to get and keep a license to drive a full-speed vehicle than it is. The availability of slower and smaller cars that may be driven without a license might make this more feasible.
- tromp 8y ago
  An even smaller example: http://www.estrima.com/en/ http://www.estrima.com/en/ Unfortunately, the price of EUR 12000-14000 is not so small...
  - jaclaz 8y ago
    Yes, that one is more similar to a Renault thingy, called Twizy: https://www.renault.it/veicoli/gamma-ze/twizy/versioni-e-prezzi.html https://www.renault.it/veicoli/gamma-ze/twizy/versioni-e-pre... that has also an interesting option, i.e. the battery that can be rented instead of bought. They are more like a cabbed quad or an upgraded golf cart than a mini car as the Axiom or Ligier (or the Chinese ones).
- jventura 8y ago
  In Portugal we call them "mata-velhos" (old-people killer) as most drivers are usually old people without driving licenses..
- cr1895 8y ago
  Netherlands has the odd Canta, which is allowed to drive on the bike paths: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canta_(vehicle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canta_(vehicle)
chocolatebunny 8y ago
Just go North of the border and pick up a Nissan Micra. A manual with no ac and windup windows goes for under $10k Canadian. Here's some Ontarians test driving it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K1EIrJOXMo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K1EIrJOXMo

syntaxing 8y ago

It actually might be better than 16x...Engineering (especially mechanical) takes a lot of time and upfront money. For instant, the smart car has a highly rated roll cage for safety [1]. It takes a lot of time and money to design and get certifications. Companies need to recover their cost somehow and make a profit. [1] https://auto.howstuffworks.com/smart-car1.htm https://auto.howstuffworks.com/smart-car1.htm

kurthr 8y ago
Exactly, if your medical bills can easily exceed the cost of the car, safety should be a bigger concern.

devy 8y ago

I am not sure if it's true or not but I have anecdotally heard from a local car dealer that exported large volumes of compliance EVs to EU telling me that Mercedes actually owns the lithium battery in the Smart fortwo eletric drive as a purchaser you are "leasing" the lithium ion battery. So the actually cost of the vehicle is more like upper bound of 30k, close to 40k range, far exceeding the MSRP.

jaclaz 8y ago

In Europe smaller "cars" (they are not actually cars) do exist, they are limited in speed/power (they can be electric or gasoline or diesel) to be compliant to the Law and they can be driven (it depends I believe in which states) either without license or with a "simplified" driving license that you can get as early as 14 years (or 16 years for the more performing types). BUT they tend to be very expensive (when compared to what they offer) and - basically - are mainly "toys" for rich kids or in some cases, used by people that for one reason or the other cannot have a "full" driving license. Only as an example/reference: https://www.aixam.com/en/ https://www.aixam.com/en/

mlinksva 8y ago
Very interesting. https://www.aixam.com/en/range/discover/legislation https://www.aixam.com/en/range/discover/legislation has some legal background. Is there anything similar in the US? Brings to mind some retirement communities such as Celebration, FL, where golf carts apparently outnumber cars. IMO it ought be much harder to get and keep a license to drive a full-speed vehicle than it is. The availability of slower and smaller cars that may be driven without a license might make this more feasible.
tromp 8y ago
An even smaller example: http://www.estrima.com/en/ http://www.estrima.com/en/ Unfortunately, the price of EUR 12000-14000 is not so small...
- jaclaz 8y ago
  Yes, that one is more similar to a Renault thingy, called Twizy: https://www.renault.it/veicoli/gamma-ze/twizy/versioni-e-prezzi.html https://www.renault.it/veicoli/gamma-ze/twizy/versioni-e-pre... that has also an interesting option, i.e. the battery that can be rented instead of bought. They are more like a cabbed quad or an upgraded golf cart than a mini car as the Axiom or Ligier (or the Chinese ones).
jventura 8y ago
In Portugal we call them "mata-velhos" (old-people killer) as most drivers are usually old people without driving licenses..
cr1895 8y ago
Netherlands has the odd Canta, which is allowed to drive on the bike paths: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canta_(vehicle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canta_(vehicle)

chocolatebunny 8y ago

Just go North of the border and pick up a Nissan Micra. A manual with no ac and windup windows goes for under $10k Canadian. Here's some Ontarians test driving it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K1EIrJOXMo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K1EIrJOXMo