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Salt Lake City, UT: 1) Very poor air quality in winter due to inversions. 2) The local popular religion (Mormonism) has an outsized influence on legislation,

Salt Lake City, UT: 1) Very poor air quality in winter due to inversions. 2) The local popular religion (Mormonism) has an outsized influence on legislation, so there are weird laws surrounding alcohol, business on Sundays, use of downtown property, etc. Outside of SLC proper people assume everyone is Mormon, and one's religion (or lack of it) can affect job opportunities, etc. 3) The city is extremely car-centric, with large blocks and narrow sidewalks. there are few places where it is pleasant to walk or linger outdoors. 4) Public transit is not great, but still better than some US cities. This seems to be slowly improving. 5) Homeless communities are concentrated around a few service locations, so certain parts of the city can seem overrun and unsafe, especially public parks. Panhandling is everywhere. 6) Local culture breeds busybodies; neighbors will complain to the city if they deem your grass is too tall, etc. There is also a lot of casual racism; for example, neighborhoods with a majority Latino population are considered "bad" despite having no higher crime, attractive houses, etc. Gripes aside, SLC is mostly a great place to live. There is beautiful scenery, reasonable housing, lots of restaurant variety, and so on. But nowhere is perfect.

aphextron 8y ago
>"2) The local popular religion (Mormonism) has an outsized influence on legislation, so there are weird laws surrounding alcohol, business on Sundays, use of downtown property, etc. Outside of SLC proper people assume everyone is Mormon, and one's religion (or lack of it) can affect job opportunities, etc." This really annoys me as someone who loves the state of Utah. People who don't really know about the Mormons and Utah think that it's just some quaint thing like the Amish in Pennsylvania or whatever. They don't realize that the Utah government is essentially a theocracy controlled by the LDS church, which dictates every aspect of society in the state. It makes the place completely unlivable for normal people who would otherwise love to live somewhere like SLC for the same reasons Denver is great (winter sports, outdoors, scenery). Do you see this ever changing?
- DamnInteresting 8y ago
  > Do you see this ever changing? Probably not in my lifetime, unless the state's efforts to attract big technology business (the "silicon slopes" initiative) draws enough people from out-of-state to seriously dilute the local population. But Mormons as a whole have a lot of kids, so it's a curious competition.
- jeffreyrogers 8y ago
  Do you live in Utah? That's not been my experience at all. You meet a lot of Mormons and you can often tell who they are, but they are very nice and it doesn't seem to affect day-to-day life much at all. I would not describe the government as a theocracy. Liquor stores aren't open on Sunday and you can't buy full strength beer in the grocery store. Other than that the differences living here vs. elsewhere aren't huge.
  - DamnInteresting 8y ago
    > Do you live in Utah? Yes. > You meet a lot of Mormons and you can often tell who they are, but they are very nice and it doesn't seem to affect day-to-day life much at all. Well, I didn't say it affected my day-to-day life, I said that it affects local legislation. > Liquor stores aren't open on Sunday and you can't buy full strength beer in the grocery store. Other than that the differences living here vs. elsewhere aren't huge. You can't buy liquor (apart from the low-strength beer) from any stores except the state-owned ones. The state strictly limits the number of liquor licenses they give out to restaurants and bars, and the rules surrounding the use of those licenses are strange and ever-changing, such as the "Zion curtain" that forbade bartenders from making drinks in view of the public. The strongest drinks bars/restaurants are allowed to serve are weak, 1 ounce of liquor per drink if I recall correctly (it may be 1.5). For a while they had that weird "sidecar" exception that allowed the establishment to sell you an extra ounce of liquor on the side the customer can mix in themselves. Servers are not allowed to serve you an alcoholic drink if you have one unfinished. Restaurants cannot sell you liquor unless you also order food. And so on. There was a law (it still may be in place) that forbade car dealerships from being open both Saturday and Sunday. Since no dealer is dumb enough to close on Saturday, this was an obvious effort to force those businesses to close on Sundays. The state has been very amenable to big land deals with the LDS church downtown, deals they would not have made with any other entity. For example, the City Creek project. The church strongly influences legislation on things like medical marijuana and gay marriage. For certain people, those influences would very much affect day-to-day life. This is what I can remember off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more. Like I said, it's mostly a good place to live. But the church currently has too much influence in government.
AnimalMuppet 8y ago
Re 2: I worked down in Utah County for a while. Down there, the coffeepot in the lunch room didn't feel like just a coffeepot. It was religious tolerance. Don't get me wrong, the Mormons were very nice, and tried to be inclusive (there would be a conversation, and some Mormon thing would come up, and someone would ask me "did you understand that", not in condescension but just to make sure I was included). But you're in a strong minority, and it can feel uncomfortable at times. Note, however, that Salt Lake County isn't nearly as bad. It's "only" 50% Mormon. My corollary to #3: Traffic can be pretty bad - not LA bad, but much worse than I'd like. (Nobody on their deathbed ever said "I wish I'd spent more time in traffic.) And my #7: Air pollution. Salt Lake City sits in a valley. That valley traps pollution and, in winter, sometimes fog. (One horrible winter - I think 1981-82 - we had fog get trapped in the valley in winter, and for 59 days, the sun shone for a total of 15 minutes. It was very depressing. Still, that only happened one year; most years are not anything like that bad.)

aphextron 8y ago

>"2) The local popular religion (Mormonism) has an outsized influence on legislation, so there are weird laws surrounding alcohol, business on Sundays, use of downtown property, etc. Outside of SLC proper people assume everyone is Mormon, and one's religion (or lack of it) can affect job opportunities, etc." This really annoys me as someone who loves the state of Utah. People who don't really know about the Mormons and Utah think that it's just some quaint thing like the Amish in Pennsylvania or whatever. They don't realize that the Utah government is essentially a theocracy controlled by the LDS church, which dictates every aspect of society in the state. It makes the place completely unlivable for normal people who would otherwise love to live somewhere like SLC for the same reasons Denver is great (winter sports, outdoors, scenery). Do you see this ever changing?

DamnInteresting 8y ago
> Do you see this ever changing? Probably not in my lifetime, unless the state's efforts to attract big technology business (the "silicon slopes" initiative) draws enough people from out-of-state to seriously dilute the local population. But Mormons as a whole have a lot of kids, so it's a curious competition.
jeffreyrogers 8y ago
Do you live in Utah? That's not been my experience at all. You meet a lot of Mormons and you can often tell who they are, but they are very nice and it doesn't seem to affect day-to-day life much at all. I would not describe the government as a theocracy. Liquor stores aren't open on Sunday and you can't buy full strength beer in the grocery store. Other than that the differences living here vs. elsewhere aren't huge.
- DamnInteresting 8y ago
  > Do you live in Utah? Yes. > You meet a lot of Mormons and you can often tell who they are, but they are very nice and it doesn't seem to affect day-to-day life much at all. Well, I didn't say it affected my day-to-day life, I said that it affects local legislation. > Liquor stores aren't open on Sunday and you can't buy full strength beer in the grocery store. Other than that the differences living here vs. elsewhere aren't huge. You can't buy liquor (apart from the low-strength beer) from any stores except the state-owned ones. The state strictly limits the number of liquor licenses they give out to restaurants and bars, and the rules surrounding the use of those licenses are strange and ever-changing, such as the "Zion curtain" that forbade bartenders from making drinks in view of the public. The strongest drinks bars/restaurants are allowed to serve are weak, 1 ounce of liquor per drink if I recall correctly (it may be 1.5). For a while they had that weird "sidecar" exception that allowed the establishment to sell you an extra ounce of liquor on the side the customer can mix in themselves. Servers are not allowed to serve you an alcoholic drink if you have one unfinished. Restaurants cannot sell you liquor unless you also order food. And so on. There was a law (it still may be in place) that forbade car dealerships from being open both Saturday and Sunday. Since no dealer is dumb enough to close on Saturday, this was an obvious effort to force those businesses to close on Sundays. The state has been very amenable to big land deals with the LDS church downtown, deals they would not have made with any other entity. For example, the City Creek project. The church strongly influences legislation on things like medical marijuana and gay marriage. For certain people, those influences would very much affect day-to-day life. This is what I can remember off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more. Like I said, it's mostly a good place to live. But the church currently has too much influence in government.

AnimalMuppet 8y ago

Re 2: I worked down in Utah County for a while. Down there, the coffeepot in the lunch room didn't feel like just a coffeepot. It was religious tolerance. Don't get me wrong, the Mormons were very nice, and tried to be inclusive (there would be a conversation, and some Mormon thing would come up, and someone would ask me "did you understand that", not in condescension but just to make sure I was included). But you're in a strong minority, and it can feel uncomfortable at times. Note, however, that Salt Lake County isn't nearly as bad. It's "only" 50% Mormon. My corollary to #3: Traffic can be pretty bad - not LA bad, but much worse than I'd like. (Nobody on their deathbed ever said "I wish I'd spent more time in traffic.) And my #7: Air pollution. Salt Lake City sits in a valley. That valley traps pollution and, in winter, sometimes fog. (One horrible winter - I think 1981-82 - we had fog get trapped in the valley in winter, and for 59 days, the sun shone for a total of 15 minutes. It was very depressing. Still, that only happened one year; most years are not anything like that bad.)