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Everybody at Google, for anything they do, should ask a simple question on any proposal ... how does this impact user privacy for those that care? Given Google

Everybody at Google, for anything they do, should ask a simple question on any proposal ... how does this impact user privacy for those that care? Given Google's size and power it's irresponsible for them to not do so. And given that there are really smart people working for Google, including a whole department working on analyzing the threats and preserving user privacy, I won't believe for a second that nobody thought of this. Which may mean that they don't care, even if they did once. And again, given their size, their power, their potential for harm, that's not OK. With great power comes great responsibility, bla, bla. So I'm not buying that. Also, now that the shit has hit the fan, lets see what they do in response. Probably nothing ;-)

irrational 8y ago
You're kidding, right? Selling user privacy is how Google makes their money. Other than Facebook, there probably isn't a single company out there less interested in protecting user privacy.
- techntoke 8y ago
  Unless you use G Suite.
LiterallyDoge 8y ago
Agree. It's just about respect. If you respect your users, it's clearly evident. Google doesn't.
staticassertion 8y ago
> how does this impact user privacy for those that care? Can you answer this for me? Given the scenario - when you clear cookies all cookies are cleared but new cookies for google services are set again, what is the privacy concern for end users?
MrLeap 8y ago
This idealism reminds me of a post I saw here a long time ago about a software developer union. One of their stated goals was "to advocate for people whose job was displaced by automation". Both read to me immediately like high octane, weapons grade, 200 proof naiveté. "Everyone at UPS, for anything they do, should ask a simple question on any proposal ... how does this impact bicycle couriers?" "Everyone at Amazon, for anything they do, should ask a simple quesiton on any proposal ... how does this impact local mom and pop general stores?" The organization you're talking about is diametrically configured to oppose the thing you're saying they should be mindful of. I just don't even know how it's a thing you can imagine is possible in this world. This comment reads to me like someone saying. "When anyone in the world is about to shoot another person, they should stop.. think about what they're doing and then _not_ shoot them. This would reduce the number of shootings dramatically." I uh.. atleast to some degree agree with all the above things.. despite that, there's a whole axis of maximum confused exasperation I feel reading about them.
- perfunctory 8y ago
  > The organization you're talking about is diametrically configured to oppose the thing you're saying they should be mindful of True. That's precisely why engineering ethics is our last hope.
  - MrLeap 8y ago
    If our last hope depends on any kind of unity of intent among members of our profession then we're doomed. It's at this point I am tempted to unpack what precipice we're about to go over when our last hope disappoints. Instead i'll stop on an optimistic note: everything is terrible and nothing matters, but humans will keep doing human stuff for as long as we can. By some measures things will continuously improve and by some others we'll regress and retry old tyrannies under new epochs. The ebb and flow can't be arrested by unity while we all hate each other like we do. Fortunately, we'll only keep on hating each other until we get something else we hate even more. Make no mistake, some day we'll all come together to hate something else again. The unity of action that'll afford will allow us to do some pretty remarkable things. Hopefully the thing we all hate together actually deserves it this time. It doesn't always work that way ;(
  - IBM 8y ago
    It absolutely isn't. Industries are regulated because they don't naturally do what society wants. Regulation changes their incentives and behavior to make that happen. A leopard can't change its spots and an ad-tech company is never going to design their products with preserving privacy first, because they can't [1]. It's like a body rejecting an organ transplant. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_by_design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_by_design
    - yuhong 8y ago
      That is why I wrote the essay. The history behind that is not simple.
  - FooHentai 8y ago
    Mhm. In the same way that imbuing stoats with a sense of empathy will help restore endangered bird numbers. As another comment stated, direct governance in the form of regulation is the appropriate tool for this problem. Other options, especially hoping for an application of a particular ethical framework, is dreams.
kaputsmack 8y ago
Like Google gives a shit about privacy! They are in the spying game. Stop spreading this BS like Google cares about anyone's privacy, they make billions of U$ from SPYING.
biztos 8y ago
> how does this impact user privacy for those that care? Maybe it's even more important to ask "how does this impact the user privacy for those that don't care?" Because that group appears to be the majority...

irrational 8y ago

You're kidding, right? Selling user privacy is how Google makes their money. Other than Facebook, there probably isn't a single company out there less interested in protecting user privacy.

techntoke 8y ago
Unless you use G Suite.

LiterallyDoge 8y ago

Agree. It's just about respect. If you respect your users, it's clearly evident. Google doesn't.

staticassertion 8y ago

> how does this impact user privacy for those that care? Can you answer this for me? Given the scenario - when you clear cookies all cookies are cleared but new cookies for google services are set again, what is the privacy concern for end users?

MrLeap 8y ago

This idealism reminds me of a post I saw here a long time ago about a software developer union. One of their stated goals was "to advocate for people whose job was displaced by automation". Both read to me immediately like high octane, weapons grade, 200 proof naiveté. "Everyone at UPS, for anything they do, should ask a simple question on any proposal ... how does this impact bicycle couriers?" "Everyone at Amazon, for anything they do, should ask a simple quesiton on any proposal ... how does this impact local mom and pop general stores?" The organization you're talking about is diametrically configured to oppose the thing you're saying they should be mindful of. I just don't even know how it's a thing you can imagine is possible in this world. This comment reads to me like someone saying. "When anyone in the world is about to shoot another person, they should stop.. think about what they're doing and then _not_ shoot them. This would reduce the number of shootings dramatically." I uh.. atleast to some degree agree with all the above things.. despite that, there's a whole axis of maximum confused exasperation I feel reading about them.

perfunctory 8y ago
> The organization you're talking about is diametrically configured to oppose the thing you're saying they should be mindful of True. That's precisely why engineering ethics is our last hope.
- MrLeap 8y ago
  If our last hope depends on any kind of unity of intent among members of our profession then we're doomed. It's at this point I am tempted to unpack what precipice we're about to go over when our last hope disappoints. Instead i'll stop on an optimistic note: everything is terrible and nothing matters, but humans will keep doing human stuff for as long as we can. By some measures things will continuously improve and by some others we'll regress and retry old tyrannies under new epochs. The ebb and flow can't be arrested by unity while we all hate each other like we do. Fortunately, we'll only keep on hating each other until we get something else we hate even more. Make no mistake, some day we'll all come together to hate something else again. The unity of action that'll afford will allow us to do some pretty remarkable things. Hopefully the thing we all hate together actually deserves it this time. It doesn't always work that way ;(
- IBM 8y ago
  It absolutely isn't. Industries are regulated because they don't naturally do what society wants. Regulation changes their incentives and behavior to make that happen. A leopard can't change its spots and an ad-tech company is never going to design their products with preserving privacy first, because they can't [1]. It's like a body rejecting an organ transplant. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_by_design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_by_design
  - yuhong 8y ago
    That is why I wrote the essay. The history behind that is not simple.
- FooHentai 8y ago
  Mhm. In the same way that imbuing stoats with a sense of empathy will help restore endangered bird numbers. As another comment stated, direct governance in the form of regulation is the appropriate tool for this problem. Other options, especially hoping for an application of a particular ethical framework, is dreams.

kaputsmack 8y ago

Like Google gives a shit about privacy! They are in the spying game. Stop spreading this BS like Google cares about anyone's privacy, they make billions of U$ from SPYING.

biztos 8y ago

> how does this impact user privacy for those that care? Maybe it's even more important to ask "how does this impact the user privacy for those that don't care?" Because that group appears to be the majority...