6 ms·

I assume this is the engineering at work. "Okay, users are confused by how they're logged into Google but not Chrome, or Chrome but not Google - let's make the

by Pxtl 8y ago

I assume this is the engineering at work. "Okay, users are confused by how they're logged into Google but not Chrome, or Chrome but not Google - let's make them one and the same". "Okay, but once you're logged into Chrome now, every post we check to see if we have the Google cookies to keep that sync... so that means when you clear the cookies the Google ones will automagically reappear" "Ugh, let's just notify the user that clearing the cookies won't clear the Google ones" "Yeah, that works". Come on, we're all developers here, we all know how these conversations work.

dev_dull 8y ago
Hackernews needs it’s own version of infowars where people can declare and believe in their most absurd and cynical conspiracy theories regarding tech.
- bradleyankrom 8y ago
  as long as it also pushes dubious health supplmenets
  - platz 8y ago
    +NOOTROOPICS +KETAMINE +LSD +DMT +JUICERO
    - clevergadget 8y ago
      I'll have what he's having
- daveFNbuck 8y ago
  What makes this a cynical and absurd conspiracy theory? Is it that cookies are being kept so as to not break browser login, or that the decision-making was driven by software engineers?
bad_user 8y ago
Everybody at Google, for anything they do, should ask a simple question on any proposal ... how does this impact user privacy for those that care? Given Google's size and power it's irresponsible for them to not do so. And given that there are really smart people working for Google, including a whole department working on analyzing the threats and preserving user privacy, I won't believe for a second that nobody thought of this. Which may mean that they don't care, even if they did once. And again, given their size, their power, their potential for harm, that's not OK. With great power comes great responsibility, bla, bla. So I'm not buying that. Also, now that the shit has hit the fan, lets see what they do in response. Probably nothing ;-)
- irrational 8y ago
  You're kidding, right? Selling user privacy is how Google makes their money. Other than Facebook, there probably isn't a single company out there less interested in protecting user privacy.
  - techntoke 8y ago
    Unless you use G Suite.
- LiterallyDoge 8y ago
  Agree. It's just about respect. If you respect your users, it's clearly evident. Google doesn't.
- staticassertion 8y ago
  > how does this impact user privacy for those that care? Can you answer this for me? Given the scenario - when you clear cookies all cookies are cleared but new cookies for google services are set again, what is the privacy concern for end users?
- MrLeap 8y ago
  This idealism reminds me of a post I saw here a long time ago about a software developer union. One of their stated goals was "to advocate for people whose job was displaced by automation". Both read to me immediately like high octane, weapons grade, 200 proof naiveté. "Everyone at UPS, for anything they do, should ask a simple question on any proposal ... how does this impact bicycle couriers?" "Everyone at Amazon, for anything they do, should ask a simple quesiton on any proposal ... how does this impact local mom and pop general stores?" The organization you're talking about is diametrically configured to oppose the thing you're saying they should be mindful of. I just don't even know how it's a thing you can imagine is possible in this world. This comment reads to me like someone saying. "When anyone in the world is about to shoot another person, they should stop.. think about what they're doing and then _not_ shoot them. This would reduce the number of shootings dramatically." I uh.. atleast to some degree agree with all the above things.. despite that, there's a whole axis of maximum confused exasperation I feel reading about them.
kerng 8y ago
If that is the case, I recommend some basic privacy and security training for every engineer. I believe the root cause at Google is elsewhere though, its goal is to make money, lots of it.
pmontra 8y ago
Don't they have anybody from the legal department to oversee the decisions of developers? A wrong decision could cost them millions in fines in these days.
- _eht 8y ago
  Are these fines actually ever collected/paid? I remember the five billion dollar fine sourced out of GDPR, but is that ever actually initiated or part of an ongoing power play?
- r00fus 8y ago
  Perhaps to your point... how could legal have not signed off on these updates? Answer: no way in hell. Legal most assuredly signed off; Google decided they have no liability, formally.
partiallypro 8y ago
Yet, it coincidentally has the properties to keep your ad tracking identity in tact, so Google can serve you ads based on your online profile. What a wonderful side effect. I'm sure they had no idea that would be the case, just pure luck.
asimpletune 8y ago
Maybe for something small? But also an “engineer at work” might stand up for not doing the lazy thing on principle.
johnmw 8y ago
Furthermore, I see all this anger about this technical decision affecting peoples privacy, but have not yet seen someone provide a good engineering solution to the problem it was trying to solve. Example Use Case: I was contacted by my poor old mother recently who said that she was logged into "The Google" but was seeing the wrong emails! She was horribly confused. What had happened was that my sister had checked her email on my mothers computer and forgot to log out. My mother was logged into Chrome (as it correctly said on the top right of the browser) but didn't understand that logging in/out of Gmail was a different thing. To blame non technical users for being confused here is unfair at the least. And I'm sure there are millions of them with the same problem. A technical user who cares about privacy can: - not log into Google and use an external email client for Gmail - use Gmail in incognito - disable Chrome auto log in via the preferences (although I haven't tried this myself some people say it works, although I've seen conflicting info about if this works in future versions of Chrome). - use Firefox (but if you are still using Gmail I'm rolling my eyes here) I personally don't think it is too evil that Google cares more about people like my mother than advanced privacy conscious technical users. Also I can't see how auto syncing ones account with Chrome really damages privacy any more than what is there now? If you are logged into Gmail they have your cookies while you browse the web anyway. If you privacy conscious enough that you log out of Gmail every time you are done, fair enough, but I would suggest not using Gmail at all in that case. But most importantly I'd like to hear a better engineering solution for people like my mother?
- flukus 8y ago
  > But most importantly I'd like to hear a better engineering solution for people like my mother? Sounds like not having to be logged into your web browser would be a good start, then you'r mother wouldn't have been confused between being logged into chrome and logged into gmail. This is a problem google created in the first place and now you're giving them credit for fixing it. > I personally don't think it is too evil that Google cares more about people like my mother than advanced privacy conscious technical users. They care about her so they can harvest her data and manipulate her.
- darawk 8y ago
  I'm not generally a fan of the privacy hysteria around Google/FB, etc. But I think the solution here is pretty clear: Don't build a login system for your browser. It's inherently confusing.

by Pxtl 8y ago

dev_dull 8y ago

Hackernews needs it’s own version of infowars where people can declare and believe in their most absurd and cynical conspiracy theories regarding tech.

bradleyankrom 8y ago
as long as it also pushes dubious health supplmenets
- platz 8y ago
  +NOOTROOPICS +KETAMINE +LSD +DMT +JUICERO
  - clevergadget 8y ago
    I'll have what he's having
daveFNbuck 8y ago
What makes this a cynical and absurd conspiracy theory? Is it that cookies are being kept so as to not break browser login, or that the decision-making was driven by software engineers?

bad_user 8y ago

Everybody at Google, for anything they do, should ask a simple question on any proposal ... how does this impact user privacy for those that care? Given Google's size and power it's irresponsible for them to not do so. And given that there are really smart people working for Google, including a whole department working on analyzing the threats and preserving user privacy, I won't believe for a second that nobody thought of this. Which may mean that they don't care, even if they did once. And again, given their size, their power, their potential for harm, that's not OK. With great power comes great responsibility, bla, bla. So I'm not buying that. Also, now that the shit has hit the fan, lets see what they do in response. Probably nothing ;-)

irrational 8y ago
You're kidding, right? Selling user privacy is how Google makes their money. Other than Facebook, there probably isn't a single company out there less interested in protecting user privacy.
- techntoke 8y ago
  Unless you use G Suite.
LiterallyDoge 8y ago
Agree. It's just about respect. If you respect your users, it's clearly evident. Google doesn't.
staticassertion 8y ago
> how does this impact user privacy for those that care? Can you answer this for me? Given the scenario - when you clear cookies all cookies are cleared but new cookies for google services are set again, what is the privacy concern for end users?
MrLeap 8y ago
This idealism reminds me of a post I saw here a long time ago about a software developer union. One of their stated goals was "to advocate for people whose job was displaced by automation". Both read to me immediately like high octane, weapons grade, 200 proof naiveté. "Everyone at UPS, for anything they do, should ask a simple question on any proposal ... how does this impact bicycle couriers?" "Everyone at Amazon, for anything they do, should ask a simple quesiton on any proposal ... how does this impact local mom and pop general stores?" The organization you're talking about is diametrically configured to oppose the thing you're saying they should be mindful of. I just don't even know how it's a thing you can imagine is possible in this world. This comment reads to me like someone saying. "When anyone in the world is about to shoot another person, they should stop.. think about what they're doing and then _not_ shoot them. This would reduce the number of shootings dramatically." I uh.. atleast to some degree agree with all the above things.. despite that, there's a whole axis of maximum confused exasperation I feel reading about them.

kerng 8y ago

If that is the case, I recommend some basic privacy and security training for every engineer. I believe the root cause at Google is elsewhere though, its goal is to make money, lots of it.

pmontra 8y ago

Don't they have anybody from the legal department to oversee the decisions of developers? A wrong decision could cost them millions in fines in these days.

_eht 8y ago
Are these fines actually ever collected/paid? I remember the five billion dollar fine sourced out of GDPR, but is that ever actually initiated or part of an ongoing power play?
r00fus 8y ago
Perhaps to your point... how could legal have not signed off on these updates? Answer: no way in hell. Legal most assuredly signed off; Google decided they have no liability, formally.

partiallypro 8y ago

Yet, it coincidentally has the properties to keep your ad tracking identity in tact, so Google can serve you ads based on your online profile. What a wonderful side effect. I'm sure they had no idea that would be the case, just pure luck.

asimpletune 8y ago

Maybe for something small? But also an “engineer at work” might stand up for not doing the lazy thing on principle.

johnmw 8y ago

Furthermore, I see all this anger about this technical decision affecting peoples privacy, but have not yet seen someone provide a good engineering solution to the problem it was trying to solve. Example Use Case: I was contacted by my poor old mother recently who said that she was logged into "The Google" but was seeing the wrong emails! She was horribly confused. What had happened was that my sister had checked her email on my mothers computer and forgot to log out. My mother was logged into Chrome (as it correctly said on the top right of the browser) but didn't understand that logging in/out of Gmail was a different thing. To blame non technical users for being confused here is unfair at the least. And I'm sure there are millions of them with the same problem. A technical user who cares about privacy can: - not log into Google and use an external email client for Gmail - use Gmail in incognito - disable Chrome auto log in via the preferences (although I haven't tried this myself some people say it works, although I've seen conflicting info about if this works in future versions of Chrome). - use Firefox (but if you are still using Gmail I'm rolling my eyes here) I personally don't think it is too evil that Google cares more about people like my mother than advanced privacy conscious technical users. Also I can't see how auto syncing ones account with Chrome really damages privacy any more than what is there now? If you are logged into Gmail they have your cookies while you browse the web anyway. If you privacy conscious enough that you log out of Gmail every time you are done, fair enough, but I would suggest not using Gmail at all in that case. But most importantly I'd like to hear a better engineering solution for people like my mother?

flukus 8y ago
> But most importantly I'd like to hear a better engineering solution for people like my mother? Sounds like not having to be logged into your web browser would be a good start, then you'r mother wouldn't have been confused between being logged into chrome and logged into gmail. This is a problem google created in the first place and now you're giving them credit for fixing it. > I personally don't think it is too evil that Google cares more about people like my mother than advanced privacy conscious technical users. They care about her so they can harvest her data and manipulate her.
darawk 8y ago
I'm not generally a fan of the privacy hysteria around Google/FB, etc. But I think the solution here is pretty clear: Don't build a login system for your browser. It's inherently confusing.