4 ms·

I await your plan for a society with no markets.

arghwhat 8y ago
No financial sector does not mean no "markets". It means no providers of financial products. However, some financial products emerge naturally between individual parties, such as credits and small-scale loans. I think the most noticeable loss would be the lack of mortgages (i.e. having to pay for a house up front). No simple means for online purchases would also be inconvenient (Bitcoin is still not a viable normal solution). Didn't Ireland have a complete and total bank strike for a full year in the 1970's, with absolutely no negative side-effects?
- chris_mc 8y ago
  >in the 1970's
- zimablue 8y ago
  As you've noted yourself, if you allow markets most of the rest kind of emerges. Futures and forwards are pretty natural, unless you somehow stop it, large scale loans are no less natural than small scale loans, products between individuals get outcompeted by products between individuals and larger entities. Mortgages aren't great but having to pay for a house up front would move empower rentiers even further. I just think you need to be specific, you're already down the path of realizing that some (but not all) of this is like laws of nature, saying that there's no value in a financial sector just seems ignorant.
- dantheman0207 8y ago
  Awesome, looked it up on Wikipedia. Strike was actually three separate strikes, just over one year in total duration. Dates as follow: May 7 – July 30, 1966 May 1 – November 17, 1970 June 28 – September 6, 1976 According to Wikipedia[1], the banking strikes had little affect on the preexisting economic woes, namely both high unemployment and inflation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_bank_strikes_%281966%E2%80%9376%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_bank_strikes_%281966%E2%...
- ploika 8y ago
  Not sure of your age or nationality, but I'm guessing you didn't live through it. (I didn't either, for the record, but my parents did). Ireland in the 70s was not a prosperous place, and trying to pay for things with second and third and fourth-hand uncashed cheques was a massive headache for everyone.
safgasCVS 8y ago
Comrade, when the workers take over there will be utopia for all! Jokes - there's nothing wrong with a sensible financial sector but our current over-financialised world of financial speculation with the public being required to bail out financiers is dangerous and needs to be reigned. This to me is just another example of how useless a good chunk of modern finance is
kenmicklas 8y ago
Finance and markets are not the same thing though.

No financial sector does not mean no "markets". It means no providers of financial products. However, some financial products emerge naturally between individual parties, such as credits and small-scale loans. I think the most noticeable loss would be the lack of mortgages (i.e. having to pay for a house up front). No simple means for online purchases would also be inconvenient (Bitcoin is still not a viable normal solution). Didn't Ireland have a complete and total bank strike for a full year in the 1970's, with absolutely no negative side-effects?

chris_mc 8y ago
>in the 1970's
zimablue 8y ago
As you've noted yourself, if you allow markets most of the rest kind of emerges. Futures and forwards are pretty natural, unless you somehow stop it, large scale loans are no less natural than small scale loans, products between individuals get outcompeted by products between individuals and larger entities. Mortgages aren't great but having to pay for a house up front would move empower rentiers even further. I just think you need to be specific, you're already down the path of realizing that some (but not all) of this is like laws of nature, saying that there's no value in a financial sector just seems ignorant.
dantheman0207 8y ago
Awesome, looked it up on Wikipedia. Strike was actually three separate strikes, just over one year in total duration. Dates as follow: May 7 – July 30, 1966 May 1 – November 17, 1970 June 28 – September 6, 1976 According to Wikipedia[1], the banking strikes had little affect on the preexisting economic woes, namely both high unemployment and inflation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_bank_strikes_%281966%E2%80%9376%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_bank_strikes_%281966%E2%...
ploika 8y ago
Not sure of your age or nationality, but I'm guessing you didn't live through it. (I didn't either, for the record, but my parents did). Ireland in the 70s was not a prosperous place, and trying to pay for things with second and third and fourth-hand uncashed cheques was a massive headache for everyone.

safgasCVS 8y ago

Comrade, when the workers take over there will be utopia for all! Jokes - there's nothing wrong with a sensible financial sector but our current over-financialised world of financial speculation with the public being required to bail out financiers is dangerous and needs to be reigned. This to me is just another example of how useless a good chunk of modern finance is

kenmicklas 8y ago

Finance and markets are not the same thing though.