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Leaving aside the pest aspect (and I'm sure it's all too real in many places), rats are fascinating creatures with a sharp, pragmatic intelligence, loads of ada

Leaving aside the pest aspect (and I'm sure it's all too real in many places), rats are fascinating creatures with a sharp, pragmatic intelligence, loads of adaptability, and social behaviors that we primates can very easily recognize and relate to. I have seen rats perform clearly abstact thinking, brewing up complex ad-hoc plans, and show stunning degrees of spatial awareness. I have been lied to by a rat, who seemed to have worked out a decent model of my expected behavior. Which I promptly delivered - the rat won. And these were domesticated rats. I should be surprised if their wild cousins weren't up to even more hardcore mental trickery.

majos 8y ago
> I have been lied to by a rat ...elaborate?
- interfixus 8y ago
  Rat teaches me to feed her when she tattles her tray. But I won't do it until everything's been eaten, also the boring bits. Then suddenly for weeks no trouble whatsoever - when she rattles her tray, it's empty, everything gone. Until one night, hidden behind a doorpost, I watch her methodically clean out the boring bits and bury them under floor pellets. As soon as the tray is empty - rattle rattle rattle. This was a supremely gifted individual. She performed similar strategems towars her cage-mates, for the most part successfully. Oh, and I always wondered what all the fuss was about with the Japanese macaque monkeys and their cultural transmission stunt. I saw one rat getting inventive with the drinking water tap, beginning to take water with cupped paws and use it for washing her fur. Others picked up on that habit, and yes, it spanned generations.
  - tetrep 8y ago
    How do you know it's deceit? It seems like you could get similar behavior if you filled two trays, one with food and the other with trash, and never provided food unless the trash tray was empty. You're training the rat to empty the tray.
    - interfixus 8y ago
      Not quite. She realised I could be tricked, but only if she thorougly covered her traces. I watched the thing. It was so clearly reasoned behavior.
    - seventhtiger 8y ago
      It didn't just empty the tray. It hid the food. That does imply it took an extra step based on a mental model of the situation.
  - ByThyGrace 8y ago
    > Others picked up on that habit, and yes, it spanned generations. It's memes (in the evolutionary sense) all the way down.

majos 8y ago

> I have been lied to by a rat ...elaborate?

interfixus 8y ago
Rat teaches me to feed her when she tattles her tray. But I won't do it until everything's been eaten, also the boring bits. Then suddenly for weeks no trouble whatsoever - when she rattles her tray, it's empty, everything gone. Until one night, hidden behind a doorpost, I watch her methodically clean out the boring bits and bury them under floor pellets. As soon as the tray is empty - rattle rattle rattle. This was a supremely gifted individual. She performed similar strategems towars her cage-mates, for the most part successfully. Oh, and I always wondered what all the fuss was about with the Japanese macaque monkeys and their cultural transmission stunt. I saw one rat getting inventive with the drinking water tap, beginning to take water with cupped paws and use it for washing her fur. Others picked up on that habit, and yes, it spanned generations.
- tetrep 8y ago
  How do you know it's deceit? It seems like you could get similar behavior if you filled two trays, one with food and the other with trash, and never provided food unless the trash tray was empty. You're training the rat to empty the tray.
  - interfixus 8y ago
    Not quite. She realised I could be tricked, but only if she thorougly covered her traces. I watched the thing. It was so clearly reasoned behavior.
  - seventhtiger 8y ago
    It didn't just empty the tray. It hid the food. That does imply it took an extra step based on a mental model of the situation.
- ByThyGrace 8y ago
  > Others picked up on that habit, and yes, it spanned generations. It's memes (in the evolutionary sense) all the way down.