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OK, I understand the vegetarians. However, I don't understand how my happiness is supposed to cause other people's suffering (life isn't a zero sum game). Addit

OK, I understand the vegetarians. However, I don't understand how my happiness is supposed to cause other people's suffering (life isn't a zero sum game). Additionally, I presume there is a difference between "I cause other people's suffering, therefore I am unhappy and I don't deserve to exist" and "I hope that some sort of epidemics wipes out humanity; good riddance".

beaconstudios 8y ago
consider all the academic literature on how Western powers are built on slavery and exploitation, how evil the European powers were (colonialism) and how if you are a white American or European, you benefit indirectly from that exploitation though your nationality and heritage. It's true in a technical sense, but it's also something you have no control over. Some people feel guilty about the actions of their cultural forebears, and thus a sense of regret that they exist in comfort because of historical atrocities perpetrated on other people. I can understand how that feeling would be pretty pervasive if you spend a lot of time around these topics in art and social science circles.
- MisterOctober 8y ago
  It's worth noting that the exploitation and atrocity aren't only historical and associated with forebears -- it's ongoing and being done by folks in the present day. Re : control : clearly, we can't influence past circumstance, but we can exert some influence over current activity by choosing what to buy and not buy, i.e., 'voting with our wallets.' All, or nearly all, all activity is driven by economic incentives. (That said, I still drink coffee)
  - beaconstudios 8y ago
    > It's worth noting that the exploitation and atrocity aren't only historical and associated with forebears -- it's ongoing and being done by folks in the present day. Of course, but this "liberal guilt" phenomenon is specifically associated with people who try to act morally in general. Thus the only (or one of the few) thing they have left to feel guilty about is their cultural ancestry. > (That said, I still drink coffee) Monster!
pjc50 8y ago
> I don't understand how my happiness is supposed to cause other people's suffering (life isn't a zero sum game). Take a sip of coffee. Tastes good? Happy? Now, how did that coffee get to you? Whose hands touched it? Were they working in free and fair employment, or were they coerced into it? How did the coffee plantation come into being in the first place? Was it bought at market price from the original occupiers, or was it expropriated from them by gun or pen? (And so on.)

beaconstudios 8y ago

consider all the academic literature on how Western powers are built on slavery and exploitation, how evil the European powers were (colonialism) and how if you are a white American or European, you benefit indirectly from that exploitation though your nationality and heritage. It's true in a technical sense, but it's also something you have no control over. Some people feel guilty about the actions of their cultural forebears, and thus a sense of regret that they exist in comfort because of historical atrocities perpetrated on other people. I can understand how that feeling would be pretty pervasive if you spend a lot of time around these topics in art and social science circles.

MisterOctober 8y ago
It's worth noting that the exploitation and atrocity aren't only historical and associated with forebears -- it's ongoing and being done by folks in the present day. Re : control : clearly, we can't influence past circumstance, but we can exert some influence over current activity by choosing what to buy and not buy, i.e., 'voting with our wallets.' All, or nearly all, all activity is driven by economic incentives. (That said, I still drink coffee)
- beaconstudios 8y ago
  > It's worth noting that the exploitation and atrocity aren't only historical and associated with forebears -- it's ongoing and being done by folks in the present day. Of course, but this "liberal guilt" phenomenon is specifically associated with people who try to act morally in general. Thus the only (or one of the few) thing they have left to feel guilty about is their cultural ancestry. > (That said, I still drink coffee) Monster!

pjc50 8y ago

> I don't understand how my happiness is supposed to cause other people's suffering (life isn't a zero sum game). Take a sip of coffee. Tastes good? Happy? Now, how did that coffee get to you? Whose hands touched it? Were they working in free and fair employment, or were they coerced into it? How did the coffee plantation come into being in the first place? Was it bought at market price from the original occupiers, or was it expropriated from them by gun or pen? (And so on.)