4 ms·

> It might not be like the black lung, dirt-faced dangerous mines of old, but if you end up working 10 or 12 hours a day, are caged, distracted, annoyed (but fe

by EZ-E 8y ago

> It might not be like the black lung, dirt-faced dangerous mines of old, but if you end up working 10 or 12 hours a day, are caged, distracted, annoyed (but fed!) at work, go home to a meager existence, have zero friends, zero romance, and your mind is hijacked to the point where you literally cannot think about anything else and relax, then your soul is being pretty much sucked dry. I would get my soul sucked dry for a few years for 100k$+ a year - for few years

carlmr 8y ago
100k$ won't create much savings in the Bay Area. At least aim for 200k$ there if you want to sell your life for years.
- madengr 8y ago
  So $200k is $20k for 10 years, which is well below the poverty line. If you sold your life for 4 years, that would only get you 40 years of poverty. Now if you can invest $180k/year, for a few years when young, you can retire early and rich. But it would take 20 years of growth.
- nigifabio 8y ago
  100k in most of European big cities are not going to send you to pension at 40 either, 200k is the 6figures salary of the 90s
  - carlmr 8y ago
    True, in Europe high taxes take an additional toll, also the salary situation is so that it's basically impossible to get 200k in Europe if you're an employee.
watwut 8y ago
One thing to consider is that if you spend several years with zero friends, zero romance and doing only single thing, then it is hard to start socializing again (assuming work is work and not socializing moved to workplace). You forget what it is like, how to do it, how to choose people to be with. You wont know what to do with time.
- a008t 8y ago
  At the same time, it's better to be rich and miserable than poor and miserable. It is easy to have zero friends, zero romance and zero meaningful hobbies under almost any circumstances for the kind of people that end up getting jobs in SV anyway.
  - watwut 8y ago
    The dichotomy here is not between dirt poor and apple CEO. Also, most young people who end up in SV are normally adjusted fully able to have friends and romance. They are also able to enjoy movies, read books, etc etc etc the same way as other people.
jiveturkey 8y ago
Where, in the entire US, does tech not pay $100k? startups pay more than that here. You don’t need to come to SV to make $100k. Any city will do.
- RightMillennial 8y ago
  Are you talking entry, low, mid, or high level compensation? Anecdotally, in the Midwest entry level is well below $100k. If you want to make $100k here, you have to be at least mid level and be at a company that values developers. According to "Developer Salaries in 2018: Updating the Stack Overflow Salary Calculator" [1], the median pay is roughly 100k in the prominent Midwest cities. [1]: https://stackoverflow.blog/2018/09/05/developer-salaries-in-2018-updating-the-stack-overflow-salary-calculator/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2018/09/05/developer-salaries-in-...
  - jiveturkey 8y ago
    Thanks for the link. I guess I overestimated starting salaries nationwide by quite a bit! But in my defense, I really meant total comp, not just salary. I know of 2 SF startups that pay $120k ish for entry level. At entry level, forget about equity, the amount you will get will be worthless. The base is your entire package. Google will give you a total comp (salary, bonus, RSU) of about $150-$160k for entry level. No senior+ person I know there is making less than $250k total comp. Google designs salaries very well to keep everyone in the same level centered at the same total comp. If you take a high salary, your raises and RSU refreshers will be less, regardless of your performance. Personally I think that's very unfair but hey I don't work at Google so who am I to say. I was making $125k base (maybe $150k total) as entry level at a mid-peninsula bigco back in 2000. I never dipped under $100k going to smallco and startups since then. As you can imagine, I make a fortune these days but I am very highly specialized. If indeed startups are paying less than $100k here, I can't imagine how they hire anyone, certainly not anyone good.

by EZ-E 8y ago

carlmr 8y ago

100k$ won't create much savings in the Bay Area. At least aim for 200k$ there if you want to sell your life for years.

madengr 8y ago
So $200k is $20k for 10 years, which is well below the poverty line. If you sold your life for 4 years, that would only get you 40 years of poverty. Now if you can invest $180k/year, for a few years when young, you can retire early and rich. But it would take 20 years of growth.
nigifabio 8y ago
100k in most of European big cities are not going to send you to pension at 40 either, 200k is the 6figures salary of the 90s
- carlmr 8y ago
  True, in Europe high taxes take an additional toll, also the salary situation is so that it's basically impossible to get 200k in Europe if you're an employee.

watwut 8y ago

One thing to consider is that if you spend several years with zero friends, zero romance and doing only single thing, then it is hard to start socializing again (assuming work is work and not socializing moved to workplace). You forget what it is like, how to do it, how to choose people to be with. You wont know what to do with time.

a008t 8y ago
At the same time, it's better to be rich and miserable than poor and miserable. It is easy to have zero friends, zero romance and zero meaningful hobbies under almost any circumstances for the kind of people that end up getting jobs in SV anyway.
- watwut 8y ago
  The dichotomy here is not between dirt poor and apple CEO. Also, most young people who end up in SV are normally adjusted fully able to have friends and romance. They are also able to enjoy movies, read books, etc etc etc the same way as other people.

jiveturkey 8y ago

Where, in the entire US, does tech not pay $100k? startups pay more than that here. You don’t need to come to SV to make $100k. Any city will do.

RightMillennial 8y ago
Are you talking entry, low, mid, or high level compensation? Anecdotally, in the Midwest entry level is well below $100k. If you want to make $100k here, you have to be at least mid level and be at a company that values developers. According to "Developer Salaries in 2018: Updating the Stack Overflow Salary Calculator" [1], the median pay is roughly 100k in the prominent Midwest cities. [1]: https://stackoverflow.blog/2018/09/05/developer-salaries-in-2018-updating-the-stack-overflow-salary-calculator/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2018/09/05/developer-salaries-in-...
- jiveturkey 8y ago
  Thanks for the link. I guess I overestimated starting salaries nationwide by quite a bit! But in my defense, I really meant total comp, not just salary. I know of 2 SF startups that pay $120k ish for entry level. At entry level, forget about equity, the amount you will get will be worthless. The base is your entire package. Google will give you a total comp (salary, bonus, RSU) of about $150-$160k for entry level. No senior+ person I know there is making less than $250k total comp. Google designs salaries very well to keep everyone in the same level centered at the same total comp. If you take a high salary, your raises and RSU refreshers will be less, regardless of your performance. Personally I think that's very unfair but hey I don't work at Google so who am I to say. I was making $125k base (maybe $150k total) as entry level at a mid-peninsula bigco back in 2000. I never dipped under $100k going to smallco and startups since then. As you can imagine, I make a fortune these days but I am very highly specialized. If indeed startups are paying less than $100k here, I can't imagine how they hire anyone, certainly not anyone good.