16 ms·

Dropping chrome is not enough. Switch to bing (Just as good as G), or ddg if you really want. Then ditch android which is the spy in your pocket. If you're inst

by ux-app 8y ago

Dropping chrome is not enough. Switch to bing (Just as good as G), or ddg if you really want. Then ditch android which is the spy in your pocket. If you're installing G analytics for clients then choose an alternative (I'm open to suggestions here). It's really time to disentangle ourselves from google. They've quietly and effectively insinuated themselves across the web. Enough is enough.

heinrich5991 8y ago
You should be good if you're using Android without Google services, I think.
- CaptainZapp 8y ago
  You should be good if you're using Android without Google services, I think. That's exactly the rub. We don't really know. My Windows phone is going defunkt and the only alternative I really see is either an iPhone, or then back to a dumb phone (a 4G wifi hotspot function would be great, but I haven't found a reasonable dumb phone supporting that). I'll be damned before I carry any Android device on me.
  - teddyh 8y ago
    You could always use a cleaned Google-free Android derivative OS like Replicant. See also the Librem 5 phone, which does not run Android at all.
    - Brakenshire 8y ago
      Librem isn’t using an Android derivative OS, it’s going to effectively be a Gnome Linux distro on mobile.
      - teddyh 8y ago
        I know that; that’s why I wrote “See also” instead of “like”. Post edited to clarify.
    - sandov 8y ago
      Replicant runs on a total of around 5 devices. LineageOS runs on a lot of devices, the only difference is that LineageOS includes proprietary drivers, but not proprietary userland. So, Lineage is a more realistic alternative. They're unlikely to spy on you through the drivers, at least it's more unlikely than being spied on by Apple by using an iPhone.
    - CaptainZapp 8y ago
      I know I could and thank you for the suggestion. The problem with that approach is that I don't want to fiddle with my phone. I don't fancy installing custom roms and I don't need the frustration about a device running 99% fine, except for those annoying 1% that you need right now. I see an analogy in GNU/Linux, which I started to use in 1999 (yeah, on the desktop). It was really good fun. I liked compiling my own kernels because I could. It's great when you can compile, say, Postgresql to the exact specifics of your box, etc. But then you get to the point where you just want that damn thing to work. You don't want to waste a couple hours or more in figuring out how to burn a cd. let alone games (a situation, which is much better now). So, at one point and as much as I like GNU/Linux, the philosophy behind free software and the endless possibilities of tinkering with your system I switched back to Windows. It's probably even worse with a phone. I want that damn thing to just work and I don't see that with keeping an Android phone Google free. At least Apple is not in the business of selling my privacy to the sleaziest of sleaze in order to make a quick buck. Edited to add : Thanks for the Librem 5 suggestion. I'll look into it.
      - jraph 8y ago
        My phone on Lineage OS 15 without Google stuff just works. There is nothing that does not work. It is flawless. Actually, it works better than an average Android phone, or than the same phone with stock system: - better battery life (it used ~ 2% battery during this very work day, with a few texts and one call) because it quite literally does nothing if I don't use it (granted, I use ForceDoze and that helps a lot). - It never shows any sign of slowness, is never laggy like I can witness on many phones around me (and I use Firefox Mobile, which is supposed to be slow from what I read). - I didn't have to disable any unwanted app. Well, except for EAP SIM Wifi authentication, which does not work on any custom ROM that I know of and flashing a custom ROM is indeed a stressful experience, especially the first time. Librem 5 will be pricey but seems like a good option when it is ready.
        CaptainZapp 8y ago
        Thank you very much. Maybe I should indeed do some research and look into it seriously. Your experience sounds really good and, provided I go that route, should save me a bundle (iPhones, especially the new lineup) are brutally expensive in Europe. Your reply (and others in the thread) once again shows what a valuable resource HN can be. Thanks!
    - scintill76 8y ago
      Librem 5 hasn't shippped yet. If you preorder one now, they're estimating you'll get it in April.
- pimeys 8y ago
  This is my only chance right now unfortunately. As I've written here before I use open source closed loop insulin systems and Android is the most convenient OS to run them without needing to reinstall every now and then as you do in iOS. I'd like something more linux-y, maybe with support for Android that I can run xDrip and AndroidAPS. But nothing else from Google. Anyways Signal, Email and Firefox are the other apps I need from the system.
jostondet 8y ago
I'm stuck on deciding what my primary mail provider will be. I do not mind paying a few bucks a month, would anyone have a suggestion? Regarding drive replacement, I will probably host a nextcloud instance.
- neilprosser 8y ago
  Funnily enough this came up yesterday! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18054574 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18054574
- reacharavindh 8y ago
  FastMail with your own domain. Few bucks a month. No creepy motive for them to mine your data. Reliable service. No bullshit & fast user interface. No affiliation, just another customer.
- Insanity 8y ago
  I'm quite happy using ProtonMail. I don't use email _that_ heavily, so I'm on their free plan and that's just fine for me. (www.protonmail.com)
  - pimeys 8y ago
    I've also been using ProtonMail since the beginning of last year and neither a heavy mail user, but need it still. I'm paying for it and using my own domain. Some things to consider: 1) The web UI is probably not very nice and snappy if you use email a lot. 2) No IMAP for Linux (still). 3) If you happen to be like me (a bit of an idiot sometimes) and lock your phone so you don't get access to your authenticator AND you forgot the security keys, all your old emails will be PGP garbage from now on. 4) The Android app is a bit so-so... Bugs happen. The good parts are it works, doesn't spy on you, encrypts everything client-side and is based in Switzerland outside of US and EU jurisdiction.
- sandov 8y ago
  mailbox.org and fastmail seem to be popular alternatives.
- 8y ago
sbr464 8y ago
Honestly I don’t think I even do that many actual searches any more, maybe I work too much, or am just odd? The most frequent services I use, after thinking about it, are: - local business/food/bars (hours, reviews) - driving directions - accessing email to confirm a signup/lookup a receipt/license etc - events, theater showtimes - flight prices - pay bills etc - check reviews/HN/ random articles. Most of these I access directly or could be provided by any basic app/search engine. After reviewing this list, you are left with a few extremely low margin services and a dismal grouping of actual usage, at least seemingly from Google’s point of view. I’m not saying I’m better than a non power user (mom etc), but are they really worth more? Does clicking on Pinterest links half of the day, or forwarding political/funny emails really have value to 3rd party companies? (Google etc) Maybe in the short term, there is a circular, ad revenue generation model, but is it really sustainable?
- sbr464 8y ago
  From a monetization perspective, why not just charge $99 for chrome vs charging $0.00005 * x-thousand and being seedy via ads? Not going to pay now, since trust is blown, but here’s to anyone in the future.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    Because nobody pays for software but most people don't care about privacy.
    - O_H_E 8y ago
      > Because nobody pays for software I find this really annoying and silly. People spend money on many other useless stuff, but not software. We have reached a point were software and internet services is expected to be free.
mike22223333 8y ago
Qwant is worse then Google, but better then Bing or DDG. Try it.
- xwvvvvwx 8y ago
  what is their business model?
  - moviuro 8y ago
    Advertizing (top results) https://about.qwant.com/legal/privacy/ https://about.qwant.com/legal/privacy/ https://about.qwant.com/ https://about.qwant.com/
- jonnu 8y ago
  Worse in what way? I assume quality of results, but the context was sort of lost in the thread you replied to.
- princekolt 8y ago
  DDG has improved substantially recently. I've had some technical search queries that gave me 2-3 results on DDG, and when I used the !g bang to lookup in Google, I got a "no results" page. =P
  - VHRanger 8y ago
    DDG is better at technical stuff and has been for a while. It's not as good at finding obscure forum posts related to a query however
Erlich_Bachman 8y ago
Bing is nowhere near "(Just as good as G)". If it was, a lot more people would have already switched. As of now, it's surprisingly behind Google in almost all but the most basic searches.
- viraptor 8y ago
  This is visible in both the results and in the logs of any large, complex website. You'll see Bing requesting things which shouldn't ever exist, and continuously trying things which are unavailable without much persistent backoff. That still have some way to go.
- crunchlibrarian 8y ago
  Not really, Google has pushed the "relevancy customization" to it's extreme limit and the conclusion of this process is search results that are often just garbage. Not just in the filter bubble sense of keeping out any info that the targeted user might find unpleasant, but also in the sense that "we don't surface anything outside of very recent, very mainstream, large corporate sites" even when that's exactly what I don't want to sift through on a given search. It's a real pain if you're trying to do research in a niche area or in an academic field that isn't hip and popular, if you're not in the 90% bracket of the distribution results for what people click on you just don't exist on Google anymore. This phenomena is most obvious when you're searching for something that you know still exists on the web, you can remember it being a top result years ago, but has now been effectively eliminated from the results because it's not sitting on the domain of a large corporation. Bing will still surface these sites, at least for now.
  - ardy42 8y ago
    > Not really, Google has pushed the "relevancy customization" to it's extreme limit and the conclusion of this process is search results that are often just garbage. > Not just in the filter bubble sense of keeping out any info that the targeted user might find unpleasant, but also in the sense that "we don't surface anything outside of very recent, very mainstream, large corporate sites" even when that's exactly what I don't want to sift through on a given search. I think this is why many people perceive Google Search to be "better." Those people are mainly looking for mainstream topics on a small number of mainstream sites, and Google has heavily biased their algorithm in that direction. > It's a real pain if you're trying to do research in a niche area or in an academic field that isn't hip and popular, if you're not in the 90% bracket of the distribution results for what people click on you just don't exist on Google anymore. > This phenomena is most obvious when you're searching for something that you know still exists on the web, you can remember it being a top result years ago, but has now been effectively eliminated from the results because it's not sitting on the domain of a large corporation. Bing will still surface these sites, at least for now. You can also try using DDG or Google Verbatim mode: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12045959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12045959. Though, IMHO DDG is about as good as Google Verbatim.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
baud147258 8y ago
For analytics, we had one here just this week: Simple Analytics https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18024277 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18024277
- ivanfon 8y ago
  It isn’t even open-source, I don’t see how it’s much better than Google Analytics. Piwik is a popular open-source alternative.
  - jboynyc 8y ago
    > Piwik is a popular open-source alternative. Now called Matomo (https://matomo.org/ https://matomo.org/).
  - berkes 8y ago
    Piwik was recently changed to Matomo. In case anyone was confused or looking for it.
- laurent123456 8y ago
  I'm also looking for an alternative to GA but paying $168/year (for now) for an inferior product is not really a solution.
  - kilo10 8y ago
    Have a look at AT Internet
  - baud147258 8y ago
    You asked for suggestions, I offered one.
Yetanfou 8y ago
If you have your own server somewhere or access to such managed by someone you trust may I suggest using a meta-search engine like Searx [1] instead? That way you get to swat a whole cloud of flies in one fell swoop: 1: no personal tracking or profiling data for the search providers 2: no 'personalised' search 3: search results from several providers condensed into one list, i.e. more results for the same query You can also use one of the public Searx instances [2] if you trust them enough not to do their own profiling. By default Searx does not use cookies but there are other ways of tracking individual browsers so that is not a guarantee for tracking-free browsing. [1] https://github.com/asciimoo/searx/ https://github.com/asciimoo/searx/ [2] https://github.com/asciimoo/searx/wiki/Searx-instances https://github.com/asciimoo/searx/wiki/Searx-instances
- benjaminjackman 8y ago
  I really wish iOS allowed for custom search engines, it's hard coded to just google, yahoo, bing, and duckduckgo because then that would allow for this roll-your-own pattern to be accessible when on the phone / tablet (if using an iPhone/iPad).
  - morganvachon 8y ago
    It's only Safari on iOS that doesn't let you change search engines. If you install Firefox you can install any search engine you want and you can customize the search URL. It still uses the Safari engine under the hood, but the user facing bits are a condensed version of desktop Firefox, including tracking protection and sync.
    - benjaminjackman 8y ago
      ... And now if only bookmarklets worked on Firefox on iOS.
- larkeith 8y ago
  I'll second the recommendation of Searx - I appreciate DDG, but it has noticeably worse search performance (relevance of results etc) than Google, while Searx, being a metasearch engine, provides high-quality results but still maintains privacy.
avodonosov 8y ago
But Bing is Microsoft. Aren't they evil ? :)
netcraft 8y ago
Im a longtime ios user thinking of switching to android soon - can you elaborate on android spying? All android devices? How do they spy and what do they gather? I hadnt come across this in my research so far
- rapnie 8y ago
  Wrt Google + research the paper [0] (pdf) on Google Data Collection by Douglas C. Schmidt is interesting. It has sections about Android and Chrome. [0] https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DCN-Google-Data-Collection-Paper.pdf https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DC...
- codethief 8y ago
  I'm not OP but I've been an Android user since the release of the T-Mobile G1 and have been trying to get rid of Google stuff for a while: > All android devices? No, not all Android devices. Only the ones with the Google Services Framework installed (or, if you're as paranoid as I am, any other Google service that is running as root). To give you an overview, Google's power over Android users basically rests on the following pillars: 1. Google Services Framework (GSF): AFAIK every Google app requires the GSF to be installed on your phone these days. The GSF runs as root, includes all kinds of analytics libraries. It also links your phone to your account if you decide to set it up on your phone (which, theoretically, you don't have to but, in practice, you are often forced to). If you indeed do that and connect your phone to your account, things like contacts, calendar entries and so on get synchronized automatically. Even worse, there's also a way for the GSF to back up all your apps' data and upload them to the Google servers. I'm just mentioning this to make it clear that the GSF really has access to everything on your phone. Solution: Use MicroG (https://microg.org https://microg.org) as a GSF replacement. This, in turn, requires using a custom ROM like LineageOS and, thus, your phone's bootloader to be unlockable. Not all Google apps will work with MicroG but most do in my experience (see below). 2. Google Play Store: Most apps are only available on the Play Store, so if you want to use any of these you'll have to use the Play Store in one way or another. The Play Store, however, needs the Google Services Framework. And even if you got rid of the GSF and replaced it with MicroG (see 1), you would still have to install the Play Store as a system app, giving it root access to your phone. Solution: Apart from getting rid of the GSF (see 1), use F-Droid for open-source apps and something like Yalp Store (or the Aurora fork) to download apps from the Play Store. (There are also ways to download apps from the Play Store using F-Droid, see e.g. https://github.com/NoMore201/playmaker https://github.com/NoMore201/playmaker) You won't be able to obtain paid apps this way, though. (Or, more precisely, you won't be able to download apps that you haven't already paid for.) 2. In-app payments ("Android Pay") As you might expect, these are also tied to the Play Store and the GSF. Solution: I haven't tried this in a long time but you might be able replace the GSF with MicroG and just have the Play Store installed and tied to your Google account in order for in-app payments to work. No guarantees, though. 3. Google SafetyNet (part of GSF, as well) From my POV, this is the most painful Google "feature". It's a Google library that apps like Netflix and online banking apps use to verify that the device they're running on has not been "tampered" with. (What "tampered" means exactly is unclear -- it definitely includes rooted devices but the precise definition is Google's secret.) If you want to use apps like Netflix, there is no real way around SafetyNet. This is because, if installed on your phone, SafetyNet will download a binary blob from Google, execute it and send its output (basically all the information the blob collected about your phone) to the Google servers. The latter will then do the verification process and notify the Netflix servers (or your bank's servers) about the result. The Netflix servers can then tell the Netflix app on your phone to lock you out if need be. Solution: While MicroG can't circumvent this, it does support SafetyNet these days by emulating the original SafetyNet implementation. So it, too, will download the binary blob and execute it. Put differently, in order to use Netflix and most online banking apps you will still have to make sure that your phone passes the SafetyNet test. Here, you've got two options: Option a): Hide root access and other system modifications (like Xposed) from SafetyNet by using something like Magisk (https://forum.xda-developers.com/apps/magisk/official-magisk-v7-universal-systemless-t3473445 https://forum.xda-developers.com/apps/magisk/official-magisk...). Option b): Don't use root or any of those modifications in the first place. (I.e. you could just run LineageOS without root and you should be fine.) The problem with non-rooted devices is that they also don't allow you to run a firewall or apps like Xprivacy for more fine-grained privacy control. (When it comes to firewalls not requiring root, NetGuard does come close, though. However, it should be noted that you won't be able to use VPNs anymore.) 4. Google services that are tied a Google account, e.g. Gmail, Drive, Maps, Picasa, Home, Google Now/voice assistant etc. As already mentioned, they all require the GSF to be installed on your phone. Solution: I would recommend staying away from them but if you really need them you should be able to replace the GSF with MicroG and they should still work. There might be exceptions, though, depending on how deeply they are integrated with your phone. (The voice assistant might be one such example.) 5. Google services that are not tied to a Google account, e.g. Maps Solution: Same as 4) and/or use an OpenStreetMaps-based app like OsmAnd as a replacement for maps.
pedrogpimenta 8y ago
Drop Android to... What? It seems the only option is iOS and I don't want that...
- rapnie 8y ago
  Maybe you'd like e.foundation It is in beta now, and forked from LineageOS.
  - pedrogpimenta 8y ago
    Yes I am very interested in this, but still waiting for a practical release :) Also I'd have to buy a new phone, because mine isn't compatible :(
Carpetsmoker 8y ago
What's the alternative to Android though? Apple has its own well-documented issues, as well as a rather large price-tag. I just use my phone for maps and some chat services, don't need a very fancy phone. Even the iPhone 7 is listed at £449, which is already £150 more than I paid for my Sony Xperia. I wish stuff like HP WebOS or Meego was still alive, but as far as I know, Apple and Google are the only serious players in town at the moment :-(
- neuronic 8y ago
  > Even the iPhone 7 is listed at £449, which is already £150 more than I paid for my Sony Xperia. In my own personal experience that would be some really well invested £150...
  - rebolek 8y ago
    So I don't have to be poor to not be spied on. Got it. If I can afford just some cheap-ass phone, I deserve to be spied on.
    - neuronic 8y ago
      I didn't say that. Complain with Android manufacturers or get a 5S or 6 series iPhone then. Apple isn't responsible for the other manufacturers bullshit. At least Apple provides brand new OS software for 5 year old phones.
- JulienSchmidt 8y ago
  Android (the Android Open Source Project) itself is not the Problem. It's the lock-in ecosystem that Google tries to establish with the Google Services Framework, Play Store and the like. What is missing, is an open and privacy-friendly alternative to GSF. Without GSF we don't have efficient push notifications (Firebase Cloud Messaging), a geolocation provider, a maps API etc. Personally, I have been using microG (https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/) instead of GSF on my phone for many years now. However, that is still just a partial solution. While it does its best to be privacy-friendly and does not have any integrated tracking / analytics like GSF, it still has to use Google's servers for push notifications, thus tracking is still possible to some degree.
mrighele 8y ago
It would be nice also for websites to have an alternative to recaptcha. I hate to have to train google's models for free just to access a website. I'd prefer to do some work for data that can be openly accessed (OpenStreetMap for example).
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  I quit using all websites that use Google captcha. I also don't want to train Google's models and spend 2-3 minutes doing free work for Google just to sign into Discord. It's extremely annoying using a VPN with Google services too, as you 9/10 times have to do lengthy captchas. I miss early-mid 2000's captchas. I'm pretty much done with Google now, and I think a lot of tech users will start pulling this way too.
dest 8y ago
Analytics => Matomo https://matomo.org/ https://matomo.org/
_shadi 8y ago
Is there a good alternative for google photos? I remember I looked for one few months ago after I got a little freaked out by google facial recognition, but didn't find any good alternative.
- groovybits 8y ago
  Hosting your own, ie NextCloud or others
- tregoning 8y ago
  flickr.com ?
lern_too_spel 8y ago
> Then ditch android which is the spy in your pocket. To what? iOS spies even more by default (no way to disable AGPS vs. opt in on Android) and doesn't allow using privacy-enabling apps by default (system-wide ad/tracker blocker, real Firefox, Signal, local maps, etc.) unless you hack your phone. Worse, it doesn't let you develop for your own phone without rebuilding weekly or paying a yearly fee for the privilege. Between the two evils of Google and Apple, Google remains the lesser evil by a long stretch.
- strunz 8y ago
  Being unable to disable AGPS is not the same as "iOS spies even more". Apple charges more because they don't sell you data or spy on you. There are system-wide ad-blockers, Firefox Focus is great, and there is a Signal app. Apple is actually going out of there way to make Safari harder to track - https://www.wired.com/story/apple-safari-privacy-wwdc/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-safari-privacy-wwdc/ They're also the only company who has been strong enough to stick up for their customers and publicly decline the US government assistance or backdoors into their products.
  - lern_too_spel 8y ago
    > Being unable to disable AGPS is not the same as "iOS spies even more". I just showed you one way that iOS spies on you that you can't turn off. All other default data collection is exactly the same between iOS and Android. N + 1 > N. Q.E.D. > There are system-wide ad-blockers Where? I'm talking about blocking ads and trackers in all apps, not just in web views. > Firefox Focus is great It doesn't use Gecko or Spidermonkey. It is not real Firefox. > and there is a Signal app. Which, as I already said, you can't set as your default SMS app. > They're also the only company who has been strong enough to stick up for their customers and publicly decline the US government assistance or backdoors into their products. Even Google has declined to assist the US government. There is no difference here. Everywhere else, iOS is significantly worse. > Apple charges more because they don't sell you data or spy on you. Apple charges more because they know they have enough rubes that will buy into their marketing spiel, even convincing some software engineers to buy programmable devices they aren't allowed to program. Google doesn't sell your data either, and as I've already shown, Android spies on you less.
kilo10 8y ago
You might want to take a look at AT Internet, they're GDPR compliant and have been in the business for a long time. It's more of a B2B company though. They have big companies as clients, mostly in France and Europe (BBC)
ouid 8y ago
>switch to bing I can't believe that this needs to be said here, but don't use Microsoft products if your goal is to avoid dark patterns and user monetization. Microsoft is at least 10 times more corrupt than google.
- h1d 8y ago
  Any source for the 10 times claim?
  - camelCaseOfBeer 8y ago
    No kidding, two sides of the same coin. Not claiming a sacred cow, but least MS has a viable business model outside of selling user data. Duck Duck Go is a better search engine than Bing or Google, anyway.
    - g4t3 8y ago
      In what world do you get better results in ddg than Google search
  - MFLoon 8y ago
    lol, nope. Like, what unit does one even measure corruption in? GP appears to be expressing a rote dislike of MS uncritically carried through from the 90s. Nowadays they're nowhere close to Google or FB in terms of EITHER anti-competitive business practices or user/consumer/human hostile product designs.
    - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
      I suggest dollars would fit the situation
      - MFLoon 8y ago
        That's odd, I thought dollars were a unit of virtuousness. /s
swingline-747 8y ago
Bing? Smh. No, no and hell no. DuckDuckGo all the way.
morganvachon 8y ago
> Switch to bing I've found Startpage and its sister site IxQuick to be a good alternative to Google. Same search results with a lot of detritus filtered out, keeps you out of Google's search bubble, and it has built in proxy features. Instead of Bing, which tracks you for monetization on Microsoft's behalf (though I trust Microsoft with my information more than Google), try DuckDuckGo. It uses Bing as a back end but, like Startpage, proxies the query so your information and identity never hits Microsoft's servers. It's also a much cleaner page code-wise than any other search engine I've seen. It often comes up with more relevant results than Startpage; I find myself often searching both for the same subject so I don't miss what I'm looking for.
- nofunsir 8y ago
  https://www.searx.me/ https://www.searx.me/
  - burky 8y ago
    I just tried this and got an error that says "Error! -search error" when searching for the term "angular directives". Not very compelling.
    - state_less 8y ago
      I received a similar error using Chrome, then tried in Firefox and am now getting search results.
      - monetus 8y ago
        Any idea what's going on there?
    - blotter_paper 8y ago
      I just tried this same search in Chrome mobile, with and without quotes, and didn't encounter this error. Not doubting you, just adding a data point.
- 8y ago
inawarminister 8y ago
Google-less AOSP is as bad to Google ad-efforts as completely adblocked iOS, isn't it? +1 for open source I guess.
manquer 8y ago
Piwik is fairly good these days as replacement for GA
shermozle 8y ago
Snowplow for analytics

by ux-app 8y ago

heinrich5991 8y ago

You should be good if you're using Android without Google services, I think.

CaptainZapp 8y ago
You should be good if you're using Android without Google services, I think. That's exactly the rub. We don't really know. My Windows phone is going defunkt and the only alternative I really see is either an iPhone, or then back to a dumb phone (a 4G wifi hotspot function would be great, but I haven't found a reasonable dumb phone supporting that). I'll be damned before I carry any Android device on me.
- teddyh 8y ago
  You could always use a cleaned Google-free Android derivative OS like Replicant. See also the Librem 5 phone, which does not run Android at all.
  - Brakenshire 8y ago
    Librem isn’t using an Android derivative OS, it’s going to effectively be a Gnome Linux distro on mobile.
    - teddyh 8y ago
      I know that; that’s why I wrote “See also” instead of “like”. Post edited to clarify.
  - sandov 8y ago
    Replicant runs on a total of around 5 devices. LineageOS runs on a lot of devices, the only difference is that LineageOS includes proprietary drivers, but not proprietary userland. So, Lineage is a more realistic alternative. They're unlikely to spy on you through the drivers, at least it's more unlikely than being spied on by Apple by using an iPhone.
  - CaptainZapp 8y ago
    I know I could and thank you for the suggestion. The problem with that approach is that I don't want to fiddle with my phone. I don't fancy installing custom roms and I don't need the frustration about a device running 99% fine, except for those annoying 1% that you need right now. I see an analogy in GNU/Linux, which I started to use in 1999 (yeah, on the desktop). It was really good fun. I liked compiling my own kernels because I could. It's great when you can compile, say, Postgresql to the exact specifics of your box, etc. But then you get to the point where you just want that damn thing to work. You don't want to waste a couple hours or more in figuring out how to burn a cd. let alone games (a situation, which is much better now). So, at one point and as much as I like GNU/Linux, the philosophy behind free software and the endless possibilities of tinkering with your system I switched back to Windows. It's probably even worse with a phone. I want that damn thing to just work and I don't see that with keeping an Android phone Google free. At least Apple is not in the business of selling my privacy to the sleaziest of sleaze in order to make a quick buck. Edited to add : Thanks for the Librem 5 suggestion. I'll look into it.
    - jraph 8y ago
      My phone on Lineage OS 15 without Google stuff just works. There is nothing that does not work. It is flawless. Actually, it works better than an average Android phone, or than the same phone with stock system: - better battery life (it used ~ 2% battery during this very work day, with a few texts and one call) because it quite literally does nothing if I don't use it (granted, I use ForceDoze and that helps a lot). - It never shows any sign of slowness, is never laggy like I can witness on many phones around me (and I use Firefox Mobile, which is supposed to be slow from what I read). - I didn't have to disable any unwanted app. Well, except for EAP SIM Wifi authentication, which does not work on any custom ROM that I know of and flashing a custom ROM is indeed a stressful experience, especially the first time. Librem 5 will be pricey but seems like a good option when it is ready.
      - CaptainZapp 8y ago
        Thank you very much. Maybe I should indeed do some research and look into it seriously. Your experience sounds really good and, provided I go that route, should save me a bundle (iPhones, especially the new lineup) are brutally expensive in Europe. Your reply (and others in the thread) once again shows what a valuable resource HN can be. Thanks!
  - scintill76 8y ago
    Librem 5 hasn't shippped yet. If you preorder one now, they're estimating you'll get it in April.
pimeys 8y ago
This is my only chance right now unfortunately. As I've written here before I use open source closed loop insulin systems and Android is the most convenient OS to run them without needing to reinstall every now and then as you do in iOS. I'd like something more linux-y, maybe with support for Android that I can run xDrip and AndroidAPS. But nothing else from Google. Anyways Signal, Email and Firefox are the other apps I need from the system.

jostondet 8y ago

I'm stuck on deciding what my primary mail provider will be. I do not mind paying a few bucks a month, would anyone have a suggestion? Regarding drive replacement, I will probably host a nextcloud instance.

neilprosser 8y ago
Funnily enough this came up yesterday! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18054574 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18054574
reacharavindh 8y ago
FastMail with your own domain. Few bucks a month. No creepy motive for them to mine your data. Reliable service. No bullshit & fast user interface. No affiliation, just another customer.
Insanity 8y ago
I'm quite happy using ProtonMail. I don't use email _that_ heavily, so I'm on their free plan and that's just fine for me. (www.protonmail.com)
- pimeys 8y ago
  I've also been using ProtonMail since the beginning of last year and neither a heavy mail user, but need it still. I'm paying for it and using my own domain. Some things to consider: 1) The web UI is probably not very nice and snappy if you use email a lot. 2) No IMAP for Linux (still). 3) If you happen to be like me (a bit of an idiot sometimes) and lock your phone so you don't get access to your authenticator AND you forgot the security keys, all your old emails will be PGP garbage from now on. 4) The Android app is a bit so-so... Bugs happen. The good parts are it works, doesn't spy on you, encrypts everything client-side and is based in Switzerland outside of US and EU jurisdiction.
sandov 8y ago
mailbox.org and fastmail seem to be popular alternatives.
8y ago

sbr464 8y ago

Honestly I don’t think I even do that many actual searches any more, maybe I work too much, or am just odd? The most frequent services I use, after thinking about it, are: - local business/food/bars (hours, reviews) - driving directions - accessing email to confirm a signup/lookup a receipt/license etc - events, theater showtimes - flight prices - pay bills etc - check reviews/HN/ random articles. Most of these I access directly or could be provided by any basic app/search engine. After reviewing this list, you are left with a few extremely low margin services and a dismal grouping of actual usage, at least seemingly from Google’s point of view. I’m not saying I’m better than a non power user (mom etc), but are they really worth more? Does clicking on Pinterest links half of the day, or forwarding political/funny emails really have value to 3rd party companies? (Google etc) Maybe in the short term, there is a circular, ad revenue generation model, but is it really sustainable?

sbr464 8y ago
From a monetization perspective, why not just charge $99 for chrome vs charging $0.00005 * x-thousand and being seedy via ads? Not going to pay now, since trust is blown, but here’s to anyone in the future.
- adrianN 8y ago
  Because nobody pays for software but most people don't care about privacy.
  - O_H_E 8y ago
    > Because nobody pays for software I find this really annoying and silly. People spend money on many other useless stuff, but not software. We have reached a point were software and internet services is expected to be free.

mike22223333 8y ago

Qwant is worse then Google, but better then Bing or DDG. Try it.

xwvvvvwx 8y ago
what is their business model?
- moviuro 8y ago
  Advertizing (top results) https://about.qwant.com/legal/privacy/ https://about.qwant.com/legal/privacy/ https://about.qwant.com/ https://about.qwant.com/
jonnu 8y ago
Worse in what way? I assume quality of results, but the context was sort of lost in the thread you replied to.
princekolt 8y ago
DDG has improved substantially recently. I've had some technical search queries that gave me 2-3 results on DDG, and when I used the !g bang to lookup in Google, I got a "no results" page. =P
- VHRanger 8y ago
  DDG is better at technical stuff and has been for a while. It's not as good at finding obscure forum posts related to a query however

Erlich_Bachman 8y ago

Bing is nowhere near "(Just as good as G)". If it was, a lot more people would have already switched. As of now, it's surprisingly behind Google in almost all but the most basic searches.

viraptor 8y ago
This is visible in both the results and in the logs of any large, complex website. You'll see Bing requesting things which shouldn't ever exist, and continuously trying things which are unavailable without much persistent backoff. That still have some way to go.
crunchlibrarian 8y ago
Not really, Google has pushed the "relevancy customization" to it's extreme limit and the conclusion of this process is search results that are often just garbage. Not just in the filter bubble sense of keeping out any info that the targeted user might find unpleasant, but also in the sense that "we don't surface anything outside of very recent, very mainstream, large corporate sites" even when that's exactly what I don't want to sift through on a given search. It's a real pain if you're trying to do research in a niche area or in an academic field that isn't hip and popular, if you're not in the 90% bracket of the distribution results for what people click on you just don't exist on Google anymore. This phenomena is most obvious when you're searching for something that you know still exists on the web, you can remember it being a top result years ago, but has now been effectively eliminated from the results because it's not sitting on the domain of a large corporation. Bing will still surface these sites, at least for now.
- ardy42 8y ago
  > Not really, Google has pushed the "relevancy customization" to it's extreme limit and the conclusion of this process is search results that are often just garbage. > Not just in the filter bubble sense of keeping out any info that the targeted user might find unpleasant, but also in the sense that "we don't surface anything outside of very recent, very mainstream, large corporate sites" even when that's exactly what I don't want to sift through on a given search. I think this is why many people perceive Google Search to be "better." Those people are mainly looking for mainstream topics on a small number of mainstream sites, and Google has heavily biased their algorithm in that direction. > It's a real pain if you're trying to do research in a niche area or in an academic field that isn't hip and popular, if you're not in the 90% bracket of the distribution results for what people click on you just don't exist on Google anymore. > This phenomena is most obvious when you're searching for something that you know still exists on the web, you can remember it being a top result years ago, but has now been effectively eliminated from the results because it's not sitting on the domain of a large corporation. Bing will still surface these sites, at least for now. You can also try using DDG or Google Verbatim mode: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12045959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12045959. Though, IMHO DDG is about as good as Google Verbatim.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

baud147258 8y ago

For analytics, we had one here just this week: Simple Analytics https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18024277 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18024277

ivanfon 8y ago
It isn’t even open-source, I don’t see how it’s much better than Google Analytics. Piwik is a popular open-source alternative.
- jboynyc 8y ago
  > Piwik is a popular open-source alternative. Now called Matomo (https://matomo.org/ https://matomo.org/).
- berkes 8y ago
  Piwik was recently changed to Matomo. In case anyone was confused or looking for it.
laurent123456 8y ago
I'm also looking for an alternative to GA but paying $168/year (for now) for an inferior product is not really a solution.
- kilo10 8y ago
  Have a look at AT Internet
- baud147258 8y ago
  You asked for suggestions, I offered one.

Yetanfou 8y ago

If you have your own server somewhere or access to such managed by someone you trust may I suggest using a meta-search engine like Searx [1] instead? That way you get to swat a whole cloud of flies in one fell swoop: 1: no personal tracking or profiling data for the search providers 2: no 'personalised' search 3: search results from several providers condensed into one list, i.e. more results for the same query You can also use one of the public Searx instances [2] if you trust them enough not to do their own profiling. By default Searx does not use cookies but there are other ways of tracking individual browsers so that is not a guarantee for tracking-free browsing. [1] https://github.com/asciimoo/searx/ https://github.com/asciimoo/searx/ [2] https://github.com/asciimoo/searx/wiki/Searx-instances https://github.com/asciimoo/searx/wiki/Searx-instances

benjaminjackman 8y ago
I really wish iOS allowed for custom search engines, it's hard coded to just google, yahoo, bing, and duckduckgo because then that would allow for this roll-your-own pattern to be accessible when on the phone / tablet (if using an iPhone/iPad).
- morganvachon 8y ago
  It's only Safari on iOS that doesn't let you change search engines. If you install Firefox you can install any search engine you want and you can customize the search URL. It still uses the Safari engine under the hood, but the user facing bits are a condensed version of desktop Firefox, including tracking protection and sync.
  - benjaminjackman 8y ago
    ... And now if only bookmarklets worked on Firefox on iOS.
larkeith 8y ago
I'll second the recommendation of Searx - I appreciate DDG, but it has noticeably worse search performance (relevance of results etc) than Google, while Searx, being a metasearch engine, provides high-quality results but still maintains privacy.

avodonosov 8y ago

But Bing is Microsoft. Aren't they evil ? :)

netcraft 8y ago

Im a longtime ios user thinking of switching to android soon - can you elaborate on android spying? All android devices? How do they spy and what do they gather? I hadnt come across this in my research so far

rapnie 8y ago
Wrt Google + research the paper [0] (pdf) on Google Data Collection by Douglas C. Schmidt is interesting. It has sections about Android and Chrome. [0] https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DCN-Google-Data-Collection-Paper.pdf https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DC...
codethief 8y ago
I'm not OP but I've been an Android user since the release of the T-Mobile G1 and have been trying to get rid of Google stuff for a while: > All android devices? No, not all Android devices. Only the ones with the Google Services Framework installed (or, if you're as paranoid as I am, any other Google service that is running as root). To give you an overview, Google's power over Android users basically rests on the following pillars: 1. Google Services Framework (GSF): AFAIK every Google app requires the GSF to be installed on your phone these days. The GSF runs as root, includes all kinds of analytics libraries. It also links your phone to your account if you decide to set it up on your phone (which, theoretically, you don't have to but, in practice, you are often forced to). If you indeed do that and connect your phone to your account, things like contacts, calendar entries and so on get synchronized automatically. Even worse, there's also a way for the GSF to back up all your apps' data and upload them to the Google servers. I'm just mentioning this to make it clear that the GSF really has access to everything on your phone. Solution: Use MicroG (https://microg.org https://microg.org) as a GSF replacement. This, in turn, requires using a custom ROM like LineageOS and, thus, your phone's bootloader to be unlockable. Not all Google apps will work with MicroG but most do in my experience (see below). 2. Google Play Store: Most apps are only available on the Play Store, so if you want to use any of these you'll have to use the Play Store in one way or another. The Play Store, however, needs the Google Services Framework. And even if you got rid of the GSF and replaced it with MicroG (see 1), you would still have to install the Play Store as a system app, giving it root access to your phone. Solution: Apart from getting rid of the GSF (see 1), use F-Droid for open-source apps and something like Yalp Store (or the Aurora fork) to download apps from the Play Store. (There are also ways to download apps from the Play Store using F-Droid, see e.g. https://github.com/NoMore201/playmaker https://github.com/NoMore201/playmaker) You won't be able to obtain paid apps this way, though. (Or, more precisely, you won't be able to download apps that you haven't already paid for.) 2. In-app payments ("Android Pay") As you might expect, these are also tied to the Play Store and the GSF. Solution: I haven't tried this in a long time but you might be able replace the GSF with MicroG and just have the Play Store installed and tied to your Google account in order for in-app payments to work. No guarantees, though. 3. Google SafetyNet (part of GSF, as well) From my POV, this is the most painful Google "feature". It's a Google library that apps like Netflix and online banking apps use to verify that the device they're running on has not been "tampered" with. (What "tampered" means exactly is unclear -- it definitely includes rooted devices but the precise definition is Google's secret.) If you want to use apps like Netflix, there is no real way around SafetyNet. This is because, if installed on your phone, SafetyNet will download a binary blob from Google, execute it and send its output (basically all the information the blob collected about your phone) to the Google servers. The latter will then do the verification process and notify the Netflix servers (or your bank's servers) about the result. The Netflix servers can then tell the Netflix app on your phone to lock you out if need be. Solution: While MicroG can't circumvent this, it does support SafetyNet these days by emulating the original SafetyNet implementation. So it, too, will download the binary blob and execute it. Put differently, in order to use Netflix and most online banking apps you will still have to make sure that your phone passes the SafetyNet test. Here, you've got two options: Option a): Hide root access and other system modifications (like Xposed) from SafetyNet by using something like Magisk (https://forum.xda-developers.com/apps/magisk/official-magisk-v7-universal-systemless-t3473445 https://forum.xda-developers.com/apps/magisk/official-magisk...). Option b): Don't use root or any of those modifications in the first place. (I.e. you could just run LineageOS without root and you should be fine.) The problem with non-rooted devices is that they also don't allow you to run a firewall or apps like Xprivacy for more fine-grained privacy control. (When it comes to firewalls not requiring root, NetGuard does come close, though. However, it should be noted that you won't be able to use VPNs anymore.) 4. Google services that are tied a Google account, e.g. Gmail, Drive, Maps, Picasa, Home, Google Now/voice assistant etc. As already mentioned, they all require the GSF to be installed on your phone. Solution: I would recommend staying away from them but if you really need them you should be able to replace the GSF with MicroG and they should still work. There might be exceptions, though, depending on how deeply they are integrated with your phone. (The voice assistant might be one such example.) 5. Google services that are not tied to a Google account, e.g. Maps Solution: Same as 4) and/or use an OpenStreetMaps-based app like OsmAnd as a replacement for maps.

pedrogpimenta 8y ago

Drop Android to... What? It seems the only option is iOS and I don't want that...

rapnie 8y ago
Maybe you'd like e.foundation It is in beta now, and forked from LineageOS.
- pedrogpimenta 8y ago
  Yes I am very interested in this, but still waiting for a practical release :) Also I'd have to buy a new phone, because mine isn't compatible :(

Carpetsmoker 8y ago

What's the alternative to Android though? Apple has its own well-documented issues, as well as a rather large price-tag. I just use my phone for maps and some chat services, don't need a very fancy phone. Even the iPhone 7 is listed at £449, which is already £150 more than I paid for my Sony Xperia. I wish stuff like HP WebOS or Meego was still alive, but as far as I know, Apple and Google are the only serious players in town at the moment :-(

neuronic 8y ago
> Even the iPhone 7 is listed at £449, which is already £150 more than I paid for my Sony Xperia. In my own personal experience that would be some really well invested £150...
- rebolek 8y ago
  So I don't have to be poor to not be spied on. Got it. If I can afford just some cheap-ass phone, I deserve to be spied on.
  - neuronic 8y ago
    I didn't say that. Complain with Android manufacturers or get a 5S or 6 series iPhone then. Apple isn't responsible for the other manufacturers bullshit. At least Apple provides brand new OS software for 5 year old phones.
JulienSchmidt 8y ago
Android (the Android Open Source Project) itself is not the Problem. It's the lock-in ecosystem that Google tries to establish with the Google Services Framework, Play Store and the like. What is missing, is an open and privacy-friendly alternative to GSF. Without GSF we don't have efficient push notifications (Firebase Cloud Messaging), a geolocation provider, a maps API etc. Personally, I have been using microG (https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/) instead of GSF on my phone for many years now. However, that is still just a partial solution. While it does its best to be privacy-friendly and does not have any integrated tracking / analytics like GSF, it still has to use Google's servers for push notifications, thus tracking is still possible to some degree.

mrighele 8y ago

It would be nice also for websites to have an alternative to recaptcha. I hate to have to train google's models for free just to access a website. I'd prefer to do some work for data that can be openly accessed (OpenStreetMap for example).

prolikewh0a 8y ago
I quit using all websites that use Google captcha. I also don't want to train Google's models and spend 2-3 minutes doing free work for Google just to sign into Discord. It's extremely annoying using a VPN with Google services too, as you 9/10 times have to do lengthy captchas. I miss early-mid 2000's captchas. I'm pretty much done with Google now, and I think a lot of tech users will start pulling this way too.

dest 8y ago

Analytics => Matomo https://matomo.org/ https://matomo.org/

_shadi 8y ago

Is there a good alternative for google photos? I remember I looked for one few months ago after I got a little freaked out by google facial recognition, but didn't find any good alternative.

groovybits 8y ago
Hosting your own, ie NextCloud or others
tregoning 8y ago
flickr.com ?

lern_too_spel 8y ago

> Then ditch android which is the spy in your pocket. To what? iOS spies even more by default (no way to disable AGPS vs. opt in on Android) and doesn't allow using privacy-enabling apps by default (system-wide ad/tracker blocker, real Firefox, Signal, local maps, etc.) unless you hack your phone. Worse, it doesn't let you develop for your own phone without rebuilding weekly or paying a yearly fee for the privilege. Between the two evils of Google and Apple, Google remains the lesser evil by a long stretch.

strunz 8y ago
Being unable to disable AGPS is not the same as "iOS spies even more". Apple charges more because they don't sell you data or spy on you. There are system-wide ad-blockers, Firefox Focus is great, and there is a Signal app. Apple is actually going out of there way to make Safari harder to track - https://www.wired.com/story/apple-safari-privacy-wwdc/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-safari-privacy-wwdc/ They're also the only company who has been strong enough to stick up for their customers and publicly decline the US government assistance or backdoors into their products.
- lern_too_spel 8y ago
  > Being unable to disable AGPS is not the same as "iOS spies even more". I just showed you one way that iOS spies on you that you can't turn off. All other default data collection is exactly the same between iOS and Android. N + 1 > N. Q.E.D. > There are system-wide ad-blockers Where? I'm talking about blocking ads and trackers in all apps, not just in web views. > Firefox Focus is great It doesn't use Gecko or Spidermonkey. It is not real Firefox. > and there is a Signal app. Which, as I already said, you can't set as your default SMS app. > They're also the only company who has been strong enough to stick up for their customers and publicly decline the US government assistance or backdoors into their products. Even Google has declined to assist the US government. There is no difference here. Everywhere else, iOS is significantly worse. > Apple charges more because they don't sell you data or spy on you. Apple charges more because they know they have enough rubes that will buy into their marketing spiel, even convincing some software engineers to buy programmable devices they aren't allowed to program. Google doesn't sell your data either, and as I've already shown, Android spies on you less.

kilo10 8y ago

You might want to take a look at AT Internet, they're GDPR compliant and have been in the business for a long time. It's more of a B2B company though. They have big companies as clients, mostly in France and Europe (BBC)

ouid 8y ago

>switch to bing I can't believe that this needs to be said here, but don't use Microsoft products if your goal is to avoid dark patterns and user monetization. Microsoft is at least 10 times more corrupt than google.

h1d 8y ago
Any source for the 10 times claim?
- camelCaseOfBeer 8y ago
  No kidding, two sides of the same coin. Not claiming a sacred cow, but least MS has a viable business model outside of selling user data. Duck Duck Go is a better search engine than Bing or Google, anyway.
  - g4t3 8y ago
    In what world do you get better results in ddg than Google search
- MFLoon 8y ago
  lol, nope. Like, what unit does one even measure corruption in? GP appears to be expressing a rote dislike of MS uncritically carried through from the 90s. Nowadays they're nowhere close to Google or FB in terms of EITHER anti-competitive business practices or user/consumer/human hostile product designs.
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    I suggest dollars would fit the situation
    - MFLoon 8y ago
      That's odd, I thought dollars were a unit of virtuousness. /s

swingline-747 8y ago

Bing? Smh. No, no and hell no. DuckDuckGo all the way.

morganvachon 8y ago

> Switch to bing I've found Startpage and its sister site IxQuick to be a good alternative to Google. Same search results with a lot of detritus filtered out, keeps you out of Google's search bubble, and it has built in proxy features. Instead of Bing, which tracks you for monetization on Microsoft's behalf (though I trust Microsoft with my information more than Google), try DuckDuckGo. It uses Bing as a back end but, like Startpage, proxies the query so your information and identity never hits Microsoft's servers. It's also a much cleaner page code-wise than any other search engine I've seen. It often comes up with more relevant results than Startpage; I find myself often searching both for the same subject so I don't miss what I'm looking for.

nofunsir 8y ago
https://www.searx.me/ https://www.searx.me/
- burky 8y ago
  I just tried this and got an error that says "Error! -search error" when searching for the term "angular directives". Not very compelling.
  - state_less 8y ago
    I received a similar error using Chrome, then tried in Firefox and am now getting search results.
    - monetus 8y ago
      Any idea what's going on there?
  - blotter_paper 8y ago
    I just tried this same search in Chrome mobile, with and without quotes, and didn't encounter this error. Not doubting you, just adding a data point.
8y ago

inawarminister 8y ago

Google-less AOSP is as bad to Google ad-efforts as completely adblocked iOS, isn't it? +1 for open source I guess.

manquer 8y ago

Piwik is fairly good these days as replacement for GA

shermozle 8y ago

Snowplow for analytics