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Yah it's a flawed experiment in a sense. Imagine how the majority in the world cannot understand determinism and you conduct a study on empathy. Flawed or resul

Yah it's a flawed experiment in a sense. Imagine how the majority in the world cannot understand determinism and you conduct a study on empathy. Flawed or results proving something based on the current conditions. Redo the study with people having a deterministic mindset and who understand the fallacy of believing in free will. The balance of empathy will change is my hypothesis from observing others like me that understand free will is a facade. It's like all the studies that try to prove it's better having people conditioned to believe in free will by conducting it on people already with a tainted mindset and who haven't broken out of it in a longterm period.

red75prime 8y ago
If you take free will as some kind of a divine spark, then, sure, it is not compatible with determinism. But there are more useful definitions of it. We need to have a distinction between behavior not under coercion and behavior under coercion, between behavior of a person who can realistically assess circumstances and who cannot and so on.
- intralizee 8y ago
  I don't think your assertion is valid. What you're describing is accomplished with describing how a person can have a mental illness, be suffering from coercion and or is contrary to the social conditioned accepted norm. Further, persons assess circumstances based on their own reality. We live in a world where the normal people look at the ones outside the circle as ill and try to bring them into the circle by doing whatever it takes by punishment, institutionalizing, and medication. It's silly trying to establish society (a system), perfect as it can become and adding an irrational belief to people; it results in harm to the system.
  - red75prime 8y ago
    > adding an irrational belief Experiments in quantum physics show that usually you can't know exact outcome of a quantum measurement. I don't think that has something to do with free will problem, but your belief in determinism seems irrational too. Yes, there are theories which try to mitigate this inconsistency, but they require quite a bit of mental acrobacy and aren't generally accepted.
    - intralizee 8y ago
      Quantum mechanics may possibly be a case of observing determinism but we assume randomness by our current technology. Everything else observable has been fitting the deterministic modal. Also you can have a system that is deterministic but influenced from an outside force and where the outside force executing the alterations is not in the system being influenced.
WalterSear 8y ago
Consciousness isn't an illusion - it's an abstraction layer.
- intralizee 8y ago
  I don't equate consciousness with free will. I find the way you describe consciousness as an abstraction layer really nice. I'm not sure if I really think it's a real thing though but I also find panpsychism cool. Anyway thanks.

red75prime 8y ago

If you take free will as some kind of a divine spark, then, sure, it is not compatible with determinism. But there are more useful definitions of it. We need to have a distinction between behavior not under coercion and behavior under coercion, between behavior of a person who can realistically assess circumstances and who cannot and so on.

intralizee 8y ago
I don't think your assertion is valid. What you're describing is accomplished with describing how a person can have a mental illness, be suffering from coercion and or is contrary to the social conditioned accepted norm. Further, persons assess circumstances based on their own reality. We live in a world where the normal people look at the ones outside the circle as ill and try to bring them into the circle by doing whatever it takes by punishment, institutionalizing, and medication. It's silly trying to establish society (a system), perfect as it can become and adding an irrational belief to people; it results in harm to the system.
- red75prime 8y ago
  > adding an irrational belief Experiments in quantum physics show that usually you can't know exact outcome of a quantum measurement. I don't think that has something to do with free will problem, but your belief in determinism seems irrational too. Yes, there are theories which try to mitigate this inconsistency, but they require quite a bit of mental acrobacy and aren't generally accepted.
  - intralizee 8y ago
    Quantum mechanics may possibly be a case of observing determinism but we assume randomness by our current technology. Everything else observable has been fitting the deterministic modal. Also you can have a system that is deterministic but influenced from an outside force and where the outside force executing the alterations is not in the system being influenced.

WalterSear 8y ago

Consciousness isn't an illusion - it's an abstraction layer.

intralizee 8y ago
I don't equate consciousness with free will. I find the way you describe consciousness as an abstraction layer really nice. I'm not sure if I really think it's a real thing though but I also find panpsychism cool. Anyway thanks.