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I don't understand the phenomenon of "liberal guilt" described in this article. To me, it sounds anti-humanistic, life-hating, cruel and borderline sociopathic.

I don't understand the phenomenon of "liberal guilt" described in this article. To me, it sounds anti-humanistic, life-hating, cruel and borderline sociopathic. I love life, I love human civilization, and all things that technical and civil progress gave to us. I will work to get a better future for myself, my daughter, and everybody else. It saddens me deeply that there are people who want the civilization to end with some epidemic, who basically want people to die. What made them this cruel?

scoggs 8y ago
From my POV it screams of, "If I can't have it my way than nobody else will have it their way!"
- ahartmetz 8y ago
  No, I think that's an American conservative misinterpretation on the level of "because they hate freedom". You take a mocking admission of own irrationality and turn it into a desire to control everyone. Certain instances of the former may turn into some form of the latter (environmental laws, let's say), but they are not the same, and your interpretation is as malicious as it gets.
  - scoggs 8y ago
    Just what?
pjc50 8y ago
I think that's a mischaracterisation of guilt, especially if you think it implies they want other people to die. It's based (as the article says) around survivor's guilt, and the worry that your life exists only because someone else's doesn't. Or is comfortable because of their suffering. Or the vegetarian impulse: at what cost in animal suffering is your life, and does it matter? (Having this discussion work is going to require a certain minimum amount of empathy and non-assumption of malice)
- atemerev 8y ago
  OK, I understand the vegetarians. However, I don't understand how my happiness is supposed to cause other people's suffering (life isn't a zero sum game). Additionally, I presume there is a difference between "I cause other people's suffering, therefore I am unhappy and I don't deserve to exist" and "I hope that some sort of epidemics wipes out humanity; good riddance".
  - beaconstudios 8y ago
    consider all the academic literature on how Western powers are built on slavery and exploitation, how evil the European powers were (colonialism) and how if you are a white American or European, you benefit indirectly from that exploitation though your nationality and heritage. It's true in a technical sense, but it's also something you have no control over. Some people feel guilty about the actions of their cultural forebears, and thus a sense of regret that they exist in comfort because of historical atrocities perpetrated on other people. I can understand how that feeling would be pretty pervasive if you spend a lot of time around these topics in art and social science circles.
    - MisterOctober 8y ago
      It's worth noting that the exploitation and atrocity aren't only historical and associated with forebears -- it's ongoing and being done by folks in the present day. Re : control : clearly, we can't influence past circumstance, but we can exert some influence over current activity by choosing what to buy and not buy, i.e., 'voting with our wallets.' All, or nearly all, all activity is driven by economic incentives. (That said, I still drink coffee)
      - beaconstudios 8y ago
        > It's worth noting that the exploitation and atrocity aren't only historical and associated with forebears -- it's ongoing and being done by folks in the present day. Of course, but this "liberal guilt" phenomenon is specifically associated with people who try to act morally in general. Thus the only (or one of the few) thing they have left to feel guilty about is their cultural ancestry. > (That said, I still drink coffee) Monster!

scoggs 8y ago

From my POV it screams of, "If I can't have it my way than nobody else will have it their way!"

ahartmetz 8y ago
No, I think that's an American conservative misinterpretation on the level of "because they hate freedom". You take a mocking admission of own irrationality and turn it into a desire to control everyone. Certain instances of the former may turn into some form of the latter (environmental laws, let's say), but they are not the same, and your interpretation is as malicious as it gets.
- scoggs 8y ago
  Just what?

pjc50 8y ago

I think that's a mischaracterisation of guilt, especially if you think it implies they want other people to die. It's based (as the article says) around survivor's guilt, and the worry that your life exists only because someone else's doesn't. Or is comfortable because of their suffering. Or the vegetarian impulse: at what cost in animal suffering is your life, and does it matter? (Having this discussion work is going to require a certain minimum amount of empathy and non-assumption of malice)

atemerev 8y ago
OK, I understand the vegetarians. However, I don't understand how my happiness is supposed to cause other people's suffering (life isn't a zero sum game). Additionally, I presume there is a difference between "I cause other people's suffering, therefore I am unhappy and I don't deserve to exist" and "I hope that some sort of epidemics wipes out humanity; good riddance".
- beaconstudios 8y ago
  consider all the academic literature on how Western powers are built on slavery and exploitation, how evil the European powers were (colonialism) and how if you are a white American or European, you benefit indirectly from that exploitation though your nationality and heritage. It's true in a technical sense, but it's also something you have no control over. Some people feel guilty about the actions of their cultural forebears, and thus a sense of regret that they exist in comfort because of historical atrocities perpetrated on other people. I can understand how that feeling would be pretty pervasive if you spend a lot of time around these topics in art and social science circles.
  - MisterOctober 8y ago
    It's worth noting that the exploitation and atrocity aren't only historical and associated with forebears -- it's ongoing and being done by folks in the present day. Re : control : clearly, we can't influence past circumstance, but we can exert some influence over current activity by choosing what to buy and not buy, i.e., 'voting with our wallets.' All, or nearly all, all activity is driven by economic incentives. (That said, I still drink coffee)
    - beaconstudios 8y ago
      > It's worth noting that the exploitation and atrocity aren't only historical and associated with forebears -- it's ongoing and being done by folks in the present day. Of course, but this "liberal guilt" phenomenon is specifically associated with people who try to act morally in general. Thus the only (or one of the few) thing they have left to feel guilty about is their cultural ancestry. > (That said, I still drink coffee) Monster!