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It's not fair to say that the US is close to China in this regard. There are no private or encrypted chat apps available in China. Everybody uses WeChat, which

by 07d046 8y ago

It's not fair to say that the US is close to China in this regard. There are no private or encrypted chat apps available in China. Everybody uses WeChat, which is actively surveilled. It's not uncommon for "private" group chats to be shut down if they talk about sensitive topics. You need a license to run a website inside China. If HN ran inside China, our accounts would be linked to our identities, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Consider also the bigger picture. There is no rule of law in China. That guy who is being forced to install spyware on his phone is probably in Xinjiang, where hundreds of thousands (and maybe over a million) people have been detained without charge and on no legal basis. Conviction rates are extremely high because trials aren't fair. Lawyers and activists disappear. Torture and forced confessions are common.

kposehn 8y ago
> There is no rule of law in China. This is the one sentence that everyone on HN must remember when we get into debates about who is better/worse/trump/xi/etc. In China, you have no rights. There is no recourse. There are no promises made by the state to protect you. This is because of China’s situation where it needs a strong central state to maintain control of the distant provinces and keep from fragmenting, but that is another debate in and of itself. The US has screwed up horribly many times, for sure, and is not perfect. But here and in many other countries you are innocent until proven guilty and have the ability to take the state to court to fight a decision you disagree with or feel is unfair.
- cirgue 8y ago
  Not only that, but there are significant parts of US jurisprudence that impact people's lives every single day that are the explicit result of citizens winning against the state in court.
  - kposehn 8y ago
    Absolutely - and thanks for pointing that out. There’s the same in the UK, Germany, France and many others too.

by 07d046 8y ago

kposehn 8y ago

> There is no rule of law in China. This is the one sentence that everyone on HN must remember when we get into debates about who is better/worse/trump/xi/etc. In China, you have no rights. There is no recourse. There are no promises made by the state to protect you. This is because of China’s situation where it needs a strong central state to maintain control of the distant provinces and keep from fragmenting, but that is another debate in and of itself. The US has screwed up horribly many times, for sure, and is not perfect. But here and in many other countries you are innocent until proven guilty and have the ability to take the state to court to fight a decision you disagree with or feel is unfair.

cirgue 8y ago
Not only that, but there are significant parts of US jurisprudence that impact people's lives every single day that are the explicit result of citizens winning against the state in court.
- kposehn 8y ago
  Absolutely - and thanks for pointing that out. There’s the same in the UK, Germany, France and many others too.