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game industry workers don't have the same bargaining power that people in other industries have. > "Cash Up Front" ... or immediate stock ownership to offset y

by zemo 8y ago

game industry workers don't have the same bargaining power that people in other industries have. > "Cash Up Front" ... or immediate stock ownership to offset your personal risk so a grant with no vesting schedule? please enlighten us as to what employers are actually giving out such favorable deals.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Why have game industry workers not unionized? If now isn’t the time, I don’t know when is. EDIT: I stand corrected.
- zemo 8y ago
  Only 7% of private sector laborers are in a union of any kind in the US. That rate has fallen sharply for several decades, and the political apparatus of the United States, especially the Republican party, has been deliberately eradicating labor unions since WWII. That's the whole "Right to Work" thing. umm, maybe start here and just ... I dunno, click around a bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_Sta...
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    There are ongoing efforts to fix this.
- riffic 8y ago
  Some organizations for the curious. https://www.gameworkersunite.org https://www.gameworkersunite.org https://techworkerscoalition.org https://techworkerscoalition.org https://techsolidarity.org/events.html https://techsolidarity.org/events.html https://siliconvalleyrising.org https://siliconvalleyrising.org https://www.iww.org/pt/unions/dept500/iu560 https://www.iww.org/pt/unions/dept500/iu560
ericdykstra 8y ago
I don't mean to be callous, but the game industry is one where much of the benefit comes from the fact that one gets to work on games as opposed to B2B SAAS apps or other banal businesses. In exchange for getting to work on games, you are taking a lower salary, higher competition, and much less stable working environment. It's very similar to sports; there are many more people who want to work in sports than there are jobs available, so the ones that do end up with jobs working for a team are overworked and underpaid despite being in the top single-digit percentile of applicants. I imagine the same is true for other entertainment industries, but I don't know enough about them to comment. There are, of course, people in these industries who do have bargaining power, but it's a very small minority of those with outstanding reputations.
- gaius 8y ago
  much of the benefit comes from the fact that one gets to work on games as opposed to B2B SAAS apps or other banal businesses I’ve sometimes wondered if that’s true. I mean debugging a race condition in C++ is going to be the same in a game engine as in a trading engine right? Except the latter will be well paid and secure.
  - ericdykstra 8y ago
    For some people, the mere fact that what they're working on produces joy rather than ??? is worth the pay/security difference, even if the everyday work itself is nearly the same. I can imagine quite a few benefits, to be honest. You get to work with other people who decided to make the same sacrifice, meaning you have something more in common with your coworkers through your work than just picking the highest paying job. You get to say "I did this" and point to a part of a game that potentially millions of people are playing. If I were evaluating two otherwise equal jobs, I could see myself taking a $5k or maybe even $10k lower salary for those kinds of benefits. The cost is much higher, though, (in terms of salary, job security, and overtime requirement) which is why I've never worked for a game company and probably won't in the future.
    - badpun 8y ago

by zemo 8y ago

toomuchtodo 8y ago

Why have game industry workers not unionized? If now isn’t the time, I don’t know when is. EDIT: I stand corrected.

zemo 8y ago
Only 7% of private sector laborers are in a union of any kind in the US. That rate has fallen sharply for several decades, and the political apparatus of the United States, especially the Republican party, has been deliberately eradicating labor unions since WWII. That's the whole "Right to Work" thing. umm, maybe start here and just ... I dunno, click around a bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_Sta...
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  There are ongoing efforts to fix this.
riffic 8y ago
Some organizations for the curious. https://www.gameworkersunite.org https://www.gameworkersunite.org https://techworkerscoalition.org https://techworkerscoalition.org https://techsolidarity.org/events.html https://techsolidarity.org/events.html https://siliconvalleyrising.org https://siliconvalleyrising.org https://www.iww.org/pt/unions/dept500/iu560 https://www.iww.org/pt/unions/dept500/iu560

ericdykstra 8y ago

I don't mean to be callous, but the game industry is one where much of the benefit comes from the fact that one gets to work on games as opposed to B2B SAAS apps or other banal businesses. In exchange for getting to work on games, you are taking a lower salary, higher competition, and much less stable working environment. It's very similar to sports; there are many more people who want to work in sports than there are jobs available, so the ones that do end up with jobs working for a team are overworked and underpaid despite being in the top single-digit percentile of applicants. I imagine the same is true for other entertainment industries, but I don't know enough about them to comment. There are, of course, people in these industries who do have bargaining power, but it's a very small minority of those with outstanding reputations.

gaius 8y ago
much of the benefit comes from the fact that one gets to work on games as opposed to B2B SAAS apps or other banal businesses I’ve sometimes wondered if that’s true. I mean debugging a race condition in C++ is going to be the same in a game engine as in a trading engine right? Except the latter will be well paid and secure.
- ericdykstra 8y ago
  For some people, the mere fact that what they're working on produces joy rather than ??? is worth the pay/security difference, even if the everyday work itself is nearly the same. I can imagine quite a few benefits, to be honest. You get to work with other people who decided to make the same sacrifice, meaning you have something more in common with your coworkers through your work than just picking the highest paying job. You get to say "I did this" and point to a part of a game that potentially millions of people are playing. If I were evaluating two otherwise equal jobs, I could see myself taking a $5k or maybe even $10k lower salary for those kinds of benefits. The cost is much higher, though, (in terms of salary, job security, and overtime requirement) which is why I've never worked for a game company and probably won't in the future.
  - badpun 8y ago