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> Xilinx tools are free, as in beer This is untrue. [1] > Supporting code is a huge overhead and it's not clear, to me anyway, what Xilinx gains from the expe

by davemp 8y ago

> Xilinx tools are free, as in beer This is untrue. [1] > Supporting code is a huge overhead and it's not clear, to me anyway, what Xilinx gains from the expendature. In what world is this the case? You host the project on github or the like and let people contribute bug fixes at the cost of filtering pull requests. Letting the community contribute bug fixes is a huge reason companies open source their tools. [1]: https://www.xilinx.com/products/design-tools/vivado.html#buy https://www.xilinx.com/products/design-tools/vivado.html#buy

esmi 8y ago
From your link: Vivado HL WebPACK™ Edition: no-cost, device-limited version of the Vivado HL Design Edition It's not as simple as an upload to github. https://opensource.com/business/16/5/how-transition-product-open-source-project https://opensource.com/business/16/5/how-transition-product-...
- duskwuff 8y ago
  The keywords are "device-limited". Xilinx WebPack won't build bitstreams for some of the larger and faster devices.
  - meuk 8y ago
    It is deprecated: it won't generate bitstreams for any new FPGA.
    - duskwuff 8y ago
      You're mixing up WebPack (which is a licensing plan for some of Xilinx's tools) and Xilinx ISE (which is one of those specific tools). Xilinx ISE is indeed deprecated. There are quite a few parts in production which it will still generate bitstreams for, though. Vivado is the newer replacement. It will not build designs for parts older than 7-series, though, so Xilinx ISE is still required to work with 6-series and older parts, as well as with Xilinx CPLDs. WebPack licenses are not deprecated. The WebPack program is still active, and will generate limited licenses for both Xilinx ISE and Vivado.
      - meuk 8y ago
        You're right. I wasn't aware that the WebPack licensing program is for Vivado as well. Thanks for the clarification.
skummetmaelk 8y ago
Most EE EDA/CAD tools are ancient monstrosities of patchwork with a user experience reminiscent of using eclipse 0.01. Full of bugs, lack of fast CLI tools. Everything must start a core process that takes many seconds to even boot. It's ridiculous. Software engineers don't know how good they have it in terms of tools.
- davemp 8y ago
  I started off doing digital design but quickly switched to embedded software after seeing the state of tooling. It's not just the tools themselves either. There are folks who will vehemently defend the way things are and shoot down even the slightest improvement efforts as naïve. With that culture in place, I'm happy just having someone else slap a cortex-mX on a board and programming it with gcc/makefiles/openocd.
  - skummetmaelk 8y ago
    Being able to do that for embedded software is also a sign that things are changing. For the longest time embedded devices were only programmable from a vendor supported IDE (looking at you TI and Cypress). At least now the open source community have figured out how to get around the limitations and the tools are starting to flourish with increasing vendor support.

by davemp 8y ago

esmi 8y ago

From your link: Vivado HL WebPACK™ Edition: no-cost, device-limited version of the Vivado HL Design Edition It's not as simple as an upload to github. https://opensource.com/business/16/5/how-transition-product-open-source-project https://opensource.com/business/16/5/how-transition-product-...

duskwuff 8y ago
The keywords are "device-limited". Xilinx WebPack won't build bitstreams for some of the larger and faster devices.
- meuk 8y ago
  It is deprecated: it won't generate bitstreams for any new FPGA.
  - duskwuff 8y ago
    You're mixing up WebPack (which is a licensing plan for some of Xilinx's tools) and Xilinx ISE (which is one of those specific tools). Xilinx ISE is indeed deprecated. There are quite a few parts in production which it will still generate bitstreams for, though. Vivado is the newer replacement. It will not build designs for parts older than 7-series, though, so Xilinx ISE is still required to work with 6-series and older parts, as well as with Xilinx CPLDs. WebPack licenses are not deprecated. The WebPack program is still active, and will generate limited licenses for both Xilinx ISE and Vivado.
    - meuk 8y ago
      You're right. I wasn't aware that the WebPack licensing program is for Vivado as well. Thanks for the clarification.

skummetmaelk 8y ago

Most EE EDA/CAD tools are ancient monstrosities of patchwork with a user experience reminiscent of using eclipse 0.01. Full of bugs, lack of fast CLI tools. Everything must start a core process that takes many seconds to even boot. It's ridiculous. Software engineers don't know how good they have it in terms of tools.

davemp 8y ago
I started off doing digital design but quickly switched to embedded software after seeing the state of tooling. It's not just the tools themselves either. There are folks who will vehemently defend the way things are and shoot down even the slightest improvement efforts as naïve. With that culture in place, I'm happy just having someone else slap a cortex-mX on a board and programming it with gcc/makefiles/openocd.
- skummetmaelk 8y ago
  Being able to do that for embedded software is also a sign that things are changing. For the longest time embedded devices were only programmable from a vendor supported IDE (looking at you TI and Cypress). At least now the open source community have figured out how to get around the limitations and the tools are starting to flourish with increasing vendor support.