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I'm typically out of touch with normal people so I'm probably proving your point, but this has pushed me off chrome and Google. Ive always loved google. Instal

I'm typically out of touch with normal people so I'm probably proving your point, but this has pushed me off chrome and Google. Ive always loved google. Installed chrome when it was released. I'm writing this from a pixel 2 XL because I broke my pixel 1 XL. I've had a Gmail account almost since it's been possible (I have my firstnamelastname@gmail.com). I now use firefox. I don't know what mail I'll switch to, and I can't bring myself to an iPhone, but I'm leaving. Google's increasing anti-user posture is enough, personified by the removal of their slogan "don't be evil". Legal move though it surely was, it's all too fitting. Goodbye Google - you broke my heart.

jkaplowitz 8y ago
I respect your feelings, but with respect to one of the factual details you listed: the "don't be evil" slogan never got removed from Google's Code of Conduct. That document has been reworded and the slogan is now at the end, but it's been there continuously. While I agree it's more of a passing mention than in the old wording, the end is one of the most prominent placements possible for such a statement other than the beginning. The common Internet belief that they removed this came from the Code of Conduct of Google's new parent company Alphabet, which says "Do the right thing" instead, combined with the subsequent rewording. But Google's still applies to Google as well.
- kryogen1c 8y ago
  Oh thank you! I'm thoroughly embarrassed to have regurgitated internet gossip without reading the source material. However, as you mentioned, I stand by my sentiment. Google has clearly telegraphed their desire to put making money over users privacy and security (my definition of security being safe from Google, whereas Google's is safe from everyone BUT google) To attack this issue from Google's side, the targeted ads I receive are straight garbage. The ads I get on my Google YouTube account from my signed in chrome Google account on my signed in Google phone are not in the least bit relevant to me or my interests. I don't use ad blockers of any kind. If I have to watch the ad about Dr. Gunter zolof solving Carmichael's toshent conjecture one more time, my phone might suffer an "accident" and I will take that opportunity to switch to a different provider (ANGRY SIDE RANT: I haven't watched that ad to completion or clicked on it a _single_ time. Stop showing it to me. 50 times. Consecutively)
netwanderer2 8y ago
I had the same mindset as yours perhaps a year or two ago, until I realized a couple of things that completely changed my mind. This is a little off the main topic but you see, when it comes to privacy, we like to think that we have it in our control but in fact we don't. As Snowden has proven, what the NSA is doing is far worse than Google. You just don't know it because it's completely hidden and sealed off from the public. But why do they have to conduct such extreme level of data mining you ask? Well, we are not living in manufacturing age anymore, that was maybe 40-50 years ago, we are living in an information age now. Everybody agrees that information is the new oil or the new currency. For the United States to continue being the leader of the world, it would be absolutely foolish for anyone to think that they don't have a complete and total full control of this key component. The public needs to start changing their mindsets and begins to accept that all information in your private life is being recorded. The only important aspect that needs to be questioned is to what extend the data is going to be used. Are some companies not going to hire you simply because of something you did in your private life three years ago that they may not agree with? That would be unacceptable to me as it would definitely cross the line. It is what I consider similar to the "social credit" system being implemented in China, in which everyone is under surveillance at all times and given scores for activities such as grocery shopping. There are always two sides of the extremes, and the balance we should strive for is somewhere in the middle. It's impossible to ask U.S companies like Google not to conduct data mining on their users. How do you expect them to compete with companies in other countries that monitor their users 24/7 and have access to larger and more accurate data? In the age of information and artificial intelligent, those companies will win the battles simply because they will have better insights that Google won't ever have. Companies in the West cannot readily admit what they're doing because the public mindset is not yet ready for this change. It's too drastic and against many values we have been familiar with our entire life. But our world is changing very quickly, it is not the same world as before, it's understandably very difficult for most people to wrap their head around this but we need to update our mindsets even if that means changing our values. Companies like Google cannot disclose what they do because of public backlash they will receive. If people are just going to switch to another company, all their investments will have been lost, and the next company will be forced to do the same anyway. Google's recent move was probably the best way to test out public water, and it is already not looking very good. I don't know if governments from the West will ever be able to crack this issue.
scrollaway 8y ago
> I don't know what mail I'll switch to Hop on https://www.gandi.net/ https://www.gandi.net/, choose a domain name that looks professional (such as mylastname.me or some other clever variation) and never have to ask that question again. If you ever want to go back to gmail, bring in your domain with gsuite (https://gsuite.google.com/ https://gsuite.google.com/). As for an alternative UI&host recommendation, go for fastmail: https://www.fastmail.com/ https://www.fastmail.com/
manigandham 8y ago
> personified by the removal of their slogan "don't be evil" It's always interesting to see how the most technical users seem to take such an irrelevant vague throwaway marketing line so seriously. It's also still in the code of conduct but now moved to the end so it was never actually removed from anything anyway, if it actually matters.

jkaplowitz 8y ago

I respect your feelings, but with respect to one of the factual details you listed: the "don't be evil" slogan never got removed from Google's Code of Conduct. That document has been reworded and the slogan is now at the end, but it's been there continuously. While I agree it's more of a passing mention than in the old wording, the end is one of the most prominent placements possible for such a statement other than the beginning. The common Internet belief that they removed this came from the Code of Conduct of Google's new parent company Alphabet, which says "Do the right thing" instead, combined with the subsequent rewording. But Google's still applies to Google as well.

kryogen1c 8y ago
Oh thank you! I'm thoroughly embarrassed to have regurgitated internet gossip without reading the source material. However, as you mentioned, I stand by my sentiment. Google has clearly telegraphed their desire to put making money over users privacy and security (my definition of security being safe from Google, whereas Google's is safe from everyone BUT google) To attack this issue from Google's side, the targeted ads I receive are straight garbage. The ads I get on my Google YouTube account from my signed in chrome Google account on my signed in Google phone are not in the least bit relevant to me or my interests. I don't use ad blockers of any kind. If I have to watch the ad about Dr. Gunter zolof solving Carmichael's toshent conjecture one more time, my phone might suffer an "accident" and I will take that opportunity to switch to a different provider (ANGRY SIDE RANT: I haven't watched that ad to completion or clicked on it a _single_ time. Stop showing it to me. 50 times. Consecutively)

netwanderer2 8y ago

I had the same mindset as yours perhaps a year or two ago, until I realized a couple of things that completely changed my mind. This is a little off the main topic but you see, when it comes to privacy, we like to think that we have it in our control but in fact we don't. As Snowden has proven, what the NSA is doing is far worse than Google. You just don't know it because it's completely hidden and sealed off from the public. But why do they have to conduct such extreme level of data mining you ask? Well, we are not living in manufacturing age anymore, that was maybe 40-50 years ago, we are living in an information age now. Everybody agrees that information is the new oil or the new currency. For the United States to continue being the leader of the world, it would be absolutely foolish for anyone to think that they don't have a complete and total full control of this key component. The public needs to start changing their mindsets and begins to accept that all information in your private life is being recorded. The only important aspect that needs to be questioned is to what extend the data is going to be used. Are some companies not going to hire you simply because of something you did in your private life three years ago that they may not agree with? That would be unacceptable to me as it would definitely cross the line. It is what I consider similar to the "social credit" system being implemented in China, in which everyone is under surveillance at all times and given scores for activities such as grocery shopping. There are always two sides of the extremes, and the balance we should strive for is somewhere in the middle. It's impossible to ask U.S companies like Google not to conduct data mining on their users. How do you expect them to compete with companies in other countries that monitor their users 24/7 and have access to larger and more accurate data? In the age of information and artificial intelligent, those companies will win the battles simply because they will have better insights that Google won't ever have. Companies in the West cannot readily admit what they're doing because the public mindset is not yet ready for this change. It's too drastic and against many values we have been familiar with our entire life. But our world is changing very quickly, it is not the same world as before, it's understandably very difficult for most people to wrap their head around this but we need to update our mindsets even if that means changing our values. Companies like Google cannot disclose what they do because of public backlash they will receive. If people are just going to switch to another company, all their investments will have been lost, and the next company will be forced to do the same anyway. Google's recent move was probably the best way to test out public water, and it is already not looking very good. I don't know if governments from the West will ever be able to crack this issue.

scrollaway 8y ago

> I don't know what mail I'll switch to Hop on https://www.gandi.net/ https://www.gandi.net/, choose a domain name that looks professional (such as mylastname.me or some other clever variation) and never have to ask that question again. If you ever want to go back to gmail, bring in your domain with gsuite (https://gsuite.google.com/ https://gsuite.google.com/). As for an alternative UI&host recommendation, go for fastmail: https://www.fastmail.com/ https://www.fastmail.com/

manigandham 8y ago

> personified by the removal of their slogan "don't be evil" It's always interesting to see how the most technical users seem to take such an irrelevant vague throwaway marketing line so seriously. It's also still in the code of conduct but now moved to the end so it was never actually removed from anything anyway, if it actually matters.