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Sigh. 1. Most of Linux is written by paid contributors. They won't leave. 2. Most of those who kindle this flamewar are not Linux contributors but the alt-rig

• Covzire 8y ago
  The alt-right, seriously?
  • confounded 8y ago
    Take a look at the rest of the stories on lulz.com It appears to be a right-wing outrage machine about black celebrities and feminists, targeted at young white North American men.
  • AdmiralAsshat 8y ago
    The email in question appears to originate from someone whose domain is "@redchan..." So, I'd say it's not inconceivable that the guy is alt-right.
    • huntie 8y ago
      It's not their website, redchan.it is one of many domains used by a free email service.
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  • jayess 8y ago
    Maybe we could throw Russia into the mix too.
    • monksy 8y ago
      Why would Russia get involved in this? The audience of this is tiny. Their reputation for involvement tends to target nations.
    • KirinDave 8y ago
      Or maybe the folks involved literally self-identify in that group and you're just not examining that possibility?
  • draw_down 8y ago
    Yes?
  • codemac 8y ago
    FTA: > unconditionedwitness@redchan I'm not sure what I define redchan as, but alt-right isn't a crazy description to me.
    • huntie 8y ago
      Redchan isn't a website, it's just a funny domain that's used for a free email service at https://cock.li https://cock.li
      • AdmiralAsshat 8y ago
        Except that Redchan is also a popular board within 8chan, and that is most likely what the domain refers to.
        • huntie 8y ago
          I didn't know that it was a board but it makes sense considering cock.li started on 4chan. Nonetheless, it's still just a free email service and using it certainly does not imply that you are 'alt-right' or whatever boogeyman. I myself use cock.li when I need a throwaway email as it's funded through donations and has easy registration.
          • AdmiralAsshat 8y ago
            Certainly I don't want to make this an ad-hominem based strictly on the domain name. I'm basing this off content he has written elsewhere in the Mailing List thread. Such as: https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/24/1497 https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/24/1497 "You must respect women who do NOTHING for you and even NOTHING for anyone else except exist as a USELESS physical entity (females who are not sweet young brides for men or mothers and just consume are not useful for anyone other than themselves: the purpose of females is to create more human beings and to bring happiness and pleasures to men: they are superfluous in any other capacity, as a class)... who rules over you ... or else you are punished. You slaved away writing the code. When they feel they don't need you anymore they seek to tear you down. You have a remedy: Recind the grant. You did NOT sign away your OWNERSHIP of the code you wrote. The anglo-american belief system is that males are to be slaves of women and their masters. This belief system is now being imposed on even hobbies like gratis software development. They wish to give men no refuge, no place to build something outside the eye of the middle-class ("white" or english) woman. To keep men checked and obedient at all time in all things." --- Now in hindsight, maybe the use of the term "anglo-american" should suggest that the author is not, himself, American, and so perhaps alt-right would not be the best term.
  • sagichmal 8y ago
    If you have a better umbrella term for the cretins who think "Social Justice Warrior" is an epithet, I think we'd all be fine with using it instead. Until then, it seems to me that the alt-right is a reasonable proxy.
    • elisaado 8y ago
      "The mainstream public", there you go :)
    • rajaganesh87 8y ago
      There is no need for an umbrella term in first place. Your argument makes no sense
    • ArchTypical 8y ago
      If you oppose a group, it's just as wrong to automagically get labeled "the other group" the first group finds most revolting.
      • bigbugbag 8y ago
        the minute you separate people into groups even on false criteria, you discriminate against the group you do not belong to. there's an episode of you are not smart about this: https://youarenotsosmart.com/2018/02/26/yanss-122-how-our-unchecked-tribal-psychology-pollutes-politics-science-and-just-about-everything-else/ https://youarenotsosmart.com/2018/02/26/yanss-122-how-our-un...
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    • how_to_bake 8y ago
      “Alt Right” is a label that is meant to conjure imagery of Nazis. And “Nazi” is a label applied to all straight, white, men[1] that do not submit to the Marxist system. Both terms are interchangeable really. [1]: There are many outside of this description that are called Nazi and Alt Right as well. This even includes the Dalai Lama now https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dalai-lama-europe-refugee-crisis-immigration-eu-racism-tibet-buddhist-a8537221.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dalai-lama-e...
  • newnewpdro 8y ago
    There's no reliable means of separating 4chan trolls from the alt-right, gamer, or any other online communites. There's some amount of overlap, it's all ambiguous, and that's constantly being exploited by one side or another to further whatever agenda they have. What horrifies me is how utterly incompetent the media is at recognizing trolling. They simply regurgitate whatever gets presented to them by supposed members of "anonymous" or the "alt-right" etc. I'm convinced the majority of this noise is just 4chan nerds trolling the media and watching the results for the lulz. But the media empowers it all to have actual consequences in reality. Quality of journalism has gone completely down the tubes. And I don't mean in the "fake news" fabricated by journalists sense, I mean in their plain incompetence and being used as puppets to validate the nonsense they report on by ... reporting everything as-given. Nothing seems to be investigated correctly prior to reporting it anymore.
• ArchTypical 8y ago
  I'm not sure what that link is supposed to explain. It does nothing to assert or rationalize a CoC, just offers up a few cloaked "whataboutisms". "Whatabout my responsibility if I have political power" is a whataboutism, with no moral reasoning (just an implication of my position is right, you just haven't thought about it enough to agree!)
• monksy 8y ago
  > Most of Linux is written by paid contributors. They won't leave. Although I don't think they're the most valuable contributors. They're often motivated to contribute things that bring them value, not the community as a whole.
• umvi 8y ago
  TBH so far I've only ever seen CoC used to bully non-conformists. For example, a developer expresses a non-conformist opinion on transgenderism on Twitter. Bam, activists show up in droves on the project's issue tracker and bludgeon the developer off the project using the CoC.
• LyndsySimon 8y ago
  > Most of Linux is written by paid contributors. They won't leave. I expect you're correct. However, the threat here isn't that a bunch of developers will leave. The threat is that any developers will leave and rescind the license to use their code. That would mean that code would have to be removed from the kernel, which would break backward compatibility. IANAL, but I believe an attempt to maintain compatibility would be "based on" the previous code to which the linux kernel now has no claim, and would therefore be a violation of copyright as well. I don't really see any practical way you'd be able to remove code from the kernel in an event like this. You'd basically have to fork it. > Most of those who kindle this flamewar are not Linux contributors but the alt-right. They also got involved in the Larry Garfield-Drupal affair (which was extremely poorly communicated). I believe you're conflating a lot of different groups under the label "alt-right" here. The bottom line is that there is a cultural shift happening, and there are many who oppose this sort of thing that aren't "alt-right" in the least. Mislabelling them as such serves to further inflame the divisions within our community, and allows their concerns to be dismissed out of hand. I think this is a mistake.
  • Crontab 8y ago
    I don't see these providers can rescind their GPLed contributions to the kernel; short of a GPL violation.
    • nailer 8y ago
      As the article mentioned rescinding is allowed in GPL v2
      • AlexMax 8y ago
        As far as I can tell, this is not settled law. GPLv2 is not the only license without an explicit "no-take-backsies" clause, and pretty much all literature I've read about open source previous to this incident suggested that although you could relicense future versions of the code, you couldn't put the genie back into the bottle on old releases. Also, to be frank, I think that if there _was_ settled law saying you could rescind old licenses, it would have far-reaching ripple effects throughout the open source world. Let's be clear, it would be a weapon that could be used by any slighted maintainer or former maintainer to damage a project, for _any_ reason. And if a single or group of maintainers could do it, a corporation with dollar signs in its eyes could do it just as easily. Be careful what you wish for.
• gwbas1c 8y ago
  I don't think it's fair to start calling someone "alt right" because they want to discuss the merits of a policy change. It's naive to think that things like source code hide our race, gender, orientation, ect; and that we leave our biases aside when collaborating on a computer program. The reality is that many people are this naive, and/or fear that someone with an agenda will create a political environment where one's lack of a minority identify becomes a liability. There's also a valid concern that an inclusive agenda can be used to force people into a project who really don't belong in a project. That's why discussion of these topics with empathy for the naive is important. Calling someone "alt right" because they haven't 100% bought onto a necessary change really is an "if you're not with us, you're against us" statement. That kind of attitude goes directly against the kind of inclusivity that something like a CoC is meant to foster.
  • bytematic 8y ago
    True, but note that this is very obviously a 4chan flooded scenario that isn't looking to advance Linux or programming, but instead do as much damage as possible.
    • ThrowawayR2 8y ago
      For this particular article, I'm more than inclined to believe it just based on the name of the website alone. Yet how can one explain the considerable negative reaction to the CoC on Phoronix's forum and Slashdot, which are hardly bastions of either 4channers or any kind of right-wing movement? They're highly pro-Linux.
• kaneua 8y ago
  Stop calling everyone you don't like "alt-right".
• nailer 8y ago
  Do you think Ted Tso is a Linux contributor?
• Double_a_92 8y ago
  Blaming the alt-right when the "SJWs" is literally and sucessfully abusing prominent open source projects to push their agenda. Great.
• Nadya 8y ago
  Your point #3 cuts both ways. How many will refuse to contribute to a politically charged environment where they can be outed for having any thoughts outside of the acceptable groupthink? I'm a T that doesn't fit into the LGBT community, at all. Most of my beliefs run perpendicular to the community at large and in some cases I get irritated with them for trying to police how people should treat me - this policing usually results in my interactions with others being worse off. But because I don't conform to the community, I'm not a "real trans". I'm depersoned and outcast. The LGBT community has treated me worse than any other community I've ever tried being a part of. I'd be one of the first people targeted by people through the CoC for, ironically, being "anti-trans" and disagreeing with someone in the greater LGBT community. One such example, "tranny" is a word I claim to identify myself with and screw anyone who tells me I can't use it because it is a slur. They give the word power when they cower from it. Because of this, I won't contribute to any open source project with a CoC. It's been a political tool used to wrestle control of a project or oust someone that someone more popular doesn't like more often than it's been a tool to foster a more inclusive and friendly community. Note that the idea I'd be one of the first targeted is merely perceived - the same bias, but mirrored, causing others to be excluded for a perceived preexisting bias against them.