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> He is not giving consent. He is just trying to get through this pile of nonsense to reach the content. Then don’t access the content? Why should the user get

> He is not giving consent. He is just trying to get through this pile of nonsense to reach the content. Then don’t access the content? Why should the user get content that someone has worked to create without having to give anything in return (whether that’s in the form of payment or information). There would be no monetary incentive to create content anymore.

jklinger410 8y ago
The faux-progressive modern perspective is to consider ostensibly true things as literally true.
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  Do you mind dumbing this down a bit for me? What you wrote has gone completely over my head here. What is "faux-progressive modern" and what is the thing being considered true even if it's only "ostensibly true"?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- Xcelerate 8y ago
  Yeah, I’m confused about what you’re trying to say as well. I can’t tell if you’re in favor of or against my argument.
TekMol 8y ago
I'm not talking about ethics or business models. I just say that pretty much every site, device and service out there violates the primary rule of the GDPR. They all store data about their users without the users consent. One of the main points of the GDPR is that the user has to actively agree to storage of data. Making it very clear that storing can not be the default. Yet when you visit the New York Times today, they tell you: By clicking "I Accept" or "X" on this banner, or using our site, you consent to the use of cookies unless you have disabled them. In one form or another every site, service and device out there is doing exactly this. Making it the default to store data about the user.
- cm2012 8y ago
  I'm not sure that is the interpretation the EU GDPR commission will use.
sigjuice 8y ago
Don't create the content if you have such poor ethics and imagination that violating people left right and center is the only way you can sustain yourself. How many people even realize the extent and repurcussions of the information you are taking from them?
- cabaalis 8y ago
  Generally it isn't the content creators doing this. It's the ad companies, as content creators are busy creating content and not advertising schemes. What is needed is ethical ad monitization choices.
deadmetheny 8y ago
Guess what - the old Internet created plenty of content for free, without incentive of monetization, yet people still did it. The Web has suffered greatly as a result of the bullshit mindset that just because you put something online, you are entitled to make money for it.
- xxpor 8y ago
  I think you need to rethink who's entitled here.
  - deadmetheny 8y ago
    Information wants to be free.
- Xcelerate 8y ago
  Right, that’s why I specifically said “monetary incentive”. There will always be non-monetary reasons to create content. Are you proposing that trying to make money using the internet is morally wrong? Or just that collecting user data is wrong? Or that collecting data without consent and a clear explanation is wrong? Because if the line is drawn at the latter, then that’s what GDPR is for, and so I don’t understand why people would be upset about having to click through a bunch of notices that try to make it clear how user data is being used.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    The problem is that there's no actual consent, just simulacra. The GDPR doesn't say that you just have to "make it clear how user data is being used", it says the user must freely give consent, which means they must not only explicitly do so, as not giving consent must not mean the user loses access to services or content (see Recital 43).
  - deadmetheny 8y ago
    >Are you proposing that trying to make money using the internet is morally wrong? Not inherently. >Or just that collecting user data is wrong? Yes, under any and all circumstances. The security implications alone are staggering.
king_phil 8y ago
Super-simple answer: it's the law (GDPR). Kopplungsverbot. Art. 7 (4) GDPR. End of story. It says: "When assessing whether consent is freely given, utmost account shall be taken of whether, inter alia, the performance of a contract, including the provision of a service, is conditional on consent to the processing of personal data that is not necessary for the performance of that contract. " It's like a butcher shop saying "the meat could be free if we could only reduce our cost by not caring about hygiene". Edit: oops, the methaphor doesn't work at all :-D
- cm2012 8y ago
  The GDPR law says, "I consent" buttons that link to detailed policies are fine.

jklinger410 8y ago

The faux-progressive modern perspective is to consider ostensibly true things as literally true.

throwawaymath 8y ago
Do you mind dumbing this down a bit for me? What you wrote has gone completely over my head here. What is "faux-progressive modern" and what is the thing being considered true even if it's only "ostensibly true"?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
Xcelerate 8y ago
Yeah, I’m confused about what you’re trying to say as well. I can’t tell if you’re in favor of or against my argument.

TekMol 8y ago

I'm not talking about ethics or business models. I just say that pretty much every site, device and service out there violates the primary rule of the GDPR. They all store data about their users without the users consent. One of the main points of the GDPR is that the user has to actively agree to storage of data. Making it very clear that storing can not be the default. Yet when you visit the New York Times today, they tell you: By clicking "I Accept" or "X" on this banner, or using our site, you consent to the use of cookies unless you have disabled them. In one form or another every site, service and device out there is doing exactly this. Making it the default to store data about the user.

cm2012 8y ago
I'm not sure that is the interpretation the EU GDPR commission will use.

sigjuice 8y ago

Don't create the content if you have such poor ethics and imagination that violating people left right and center is the only way you can sustain yourself. How many people even realize the extent and repurcussions of the information you are taking from them?

cabaalis 8y ago
Generally it isn't the content creators doing this. It's the ad companies, as content creators are busy creating content and not advertising schemes. What is needed is ethical ad monitization choices.

deadmetheny 8y ago

Guess what - the old Internet created plenty of content for free, without incentive of monetization, yet people still did it. The Web has suffered greatly as a result of the bullshit mindset that just because you put something online, you are entitled to make money for it.

xxpor 8y ago
I think you need to rethink who's entitled here.
- deadmetheny 8y ago
  Information wants to be free.
Xcelerate 8y ago
Right, that’s why I specifically said “monetary incentive”. There will always be non-monetary reasons to create content. Are you proposing that trying to make money using the internet is morally wrong? Or just that collecting user data is wrong? Or that collecting data without consent and a clear explanation is wrong? Because if the line is drawn at the latter, then that’s what GDPR is for, and so I don’t understand why people would be upset about having to click through a bunch of notices that try to make it clear how user data is being used.
- icebraining 8y ago
  The problem is that there's no actual consent, just simulacra. The GDPR doesn't say that you just have to "make it clear how user data is being used", it says the user must freely give consent, which means they must not only explicitly do so, as not giving consent must not mean the user loses access to services or content (see Recital 43).
- deadmetheny 8y ago
  >Are you proposing that trying to make money using the internet is morally wrong? Not inherently. >Or just that collecting user data is wrong? Yes, under any and all circumstances. The security implications alone are staggering.

king_phil 8y ago

Super-simple answer: it's the law (GDPR). Kopplungsverbot. Art. 7 (4) GDPR. End of story. It says: "When assessing whether consent is freely given, utmost account shall be taken of whether, inter alia, the performance of a contract, including the provision of a service, is conditional on consent to the processing of personal data that is not necessary for the performance of that contract. " It's like a butcher shop saying "the meat could be free if we could only reduce our cost by not caring about hygiene". Edit: oops, the methaphor doesn't work at all :-D

cm2012 8y ago
The GDPR law says, "I consent" buttons that link to detailed policies are fine.