5 ms·

Our local police department (Oviedo florida) takes a police car 200 ft from the station and sits it by a 25mph zone that feeds into a 50 mph zone [1]. Now that

Our local police department (Oviedo florida) takes a police car 200 ft from the station and sits it by a 25mph zone that feeds into a 50 mph zone [1]. Now that my wife and I have both been ticketed (30mph) we go the speed limit -- what is even more weird --- going 25mph near a freeway is really dangerous as cars honk and freak out behind you swerving to get around you. https://www.google.com/maps/place/28%C2%B038'57.5%22N+81%C2%B012'19.7%22W/@28.6493175,-81.2060261,19z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d28.6493163!4d-81.2054789 https://www.google.com/maps/place/28%C2%B038'57.5%22N+81%C2%...

wdewind 8y ago
This is actually the kind of thing your congressperson can sometimes be helpful with. Worth a call.
- horsecaptin 8y ago
  Amen. Cruel and unusual is what this is.
maxsilver 8y ago
This is one of the few areas where Michigan leads with strong quality legislation. Michigan Public Act 85 of 2006 requires speed limits to be set to reasonable speeds for traffic (generally based on the 85th Percentile rule), so as not to artificially incriminate the general population. It overrides local laws, so it also prevents corrupt municipalities and/or corrupt police departments from lowering the speed limits for financial gains (speed traps). https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/investigations/13-on-your-side/watchdog/msp-some-grand-rapids-speed-limits-unenforceable/69-13049840 https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/investigations/13-on-you... https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2011/10/police_explain_grand_rapids_ar.html https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2011/10/po... I don't know if Florida has a similar law. But if not, they should consider it.
- fmfm 8y ago
  >Michigan Public Act 85 of 2006 requires speed limits to be set to reasonable speeds for traffic (generally based on the 85th Percentile rule), so as not to artificially incriminate the general population. While I applaud the intention behind this law, I hope you're overstating Michigan's reliance on the 85th percentile rule. For the uninitiated, "The 85th percentile speed refers to the speed at or below which 85% of vehicles are traveling" [1] as measured by a speed survey of current conditions. The problem with the 85th percentile rule is that it completely ignores the safety of other road users and the surrounding community, taking drivers perception of safety as fact. I think drivers tend to underestimate the risk that increased speed poses to pedestrians and bicyclists, especially in urban and suburban areas. Problems exist even on roads that only allow drivers: 'Raising the speed limit to match the 85th percentile speed may lead to higher operating speeds, and hence a higher 85th percentile speed. This generates an undesirable cycle of speed escalation and reduced safety. As a 2016 Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) report stated, “The 85th percentile speed is not a stationary point. It is, rather, a moving target that increases when speed limits are raised” (Farmer 2016).' Rather than relying primarily on the 85th percentile rule, I hope Michigan gives full weight to the additional factors the MUTCD manual mentions, like “(A) road characteristics, shoulder condition, grade, alignment, and sight distance; (B) the pace; (C) roadside development and environment; (D) parking practices and pedestrian activity; and (E) reported crash experience for at least a 12-month period” [1]. If after considering these factors the road is still a speed trap, then the road should be redesigned to align drivers expectations with the posted speed [2], not the other way around. [1] https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Documents/SS1701.pdf https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Documents/SS1701.... [2] methods include narrowing lane width, eliminating or reducing shoulders, reducing the number of lanes, increasing road curvature with pedestrian islands, speed bumps, etc
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
chrisseaton 8y ago
Everyone's got an excuse for why they were in the right when they got a speeding ticket. And you now admit you drive according to the speed limit having been ticketed? So it seems like what the police force are doing is effective.
- throwawaymanbot 8y ago
  Well once everyone obeys this law... I'm sure they'll figure out something else wrong for everyone to pay them again. And therein lies the problem.
- kakarot 8y ago
  Surely you don't think there is a larger motivation behind this kind of behavior than predatory fundraising for the local department?
- itchyouch 8y ago
  Most people dont get ticketed until they are around 15 over. Thats the “unspoken” general expectation. Even some fine schedules, have 1-10 over as a $0 fine. See pennsylvania: https://www.penndot.gov/TravelInPA/Safety/TrafficSafetyAndDriverTopics/Documents/TIPP-Fine-Card-JAN-2014-v5.pdf https://www.penndot.gov/TravelInPA/Safety/TrafficSafetyAndDr... However, some draconian towns like Collegedale, TN which advertise no crime statistic in 20-30 years feed off the college kids and give them 5mph over tickets all day long. Its not necessarily about changing behavior, but there is a balance to be striken between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    5mph over can be the difference between life and death in a crash with a pedestrian. I don’t understand why people trivialise it or act like it’s draconian to expect people to drive under a speed limit.

wdewind 8y ago

This is actually the kind of thing your congressperson can sometimes be helpful with. Worth a call.

horsecaptin 8y ago
Amen. Cruel and unusual is what this is.

maxsilver 8y ago

This is one of the few areas where Michigan leads with strong quality legislation. Michigan Public Act 85 of 2006 requires speed limits to be set to reasonable speeds for traffic (generally based on the 85th Percentile rule), so as not to artificially incriminate the general population. It overrides local laws, so it also prevents corrupt municipalities and/or corrupt police departments from lowering the speed limits for financial gains (speed traps). https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/investigations/13-on-your-side/watchdog/msp-some-grand-rapids-speed-limits-unenforceable/69-13049840 https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/investigations/13-on-you... https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2011/10/police_explain_grand_rapids_ar.html https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2011/10/po... I don't know if Florida has a similar law. But if not, they should consider it.

fmfm 8y ago
>Michigan Public Act 85 of 2006 requires speed limits to be set to reasonable speeds for traffic (generally based on the 85th Percentile rule), so as not to artificially incriminate the general population. While I applaud the intention behind this law, I hope you're overstating Michigan's reliance on the 85th percentile rule. For the uninitiated, "The 85th percentile speed refers to the speed at or below which 85% of vehicles are traveling" [1] as measured by a speed survey of current conditions. The problem with the 85th percentile rule is that it completely ignores the safety of other road users and the surrounding community, taking drivers perception of safety as fact. I think drivers tend to underestimate the risk that increased speed poses to pedestrians and bicyclists, especially in urban and suburban areas. Problems exist even on roads that only allow drivers: 'Raising the speed limit to match the 85th percentile speed may lead to higher operating speeds, and hence a higher 85th percentile speed. This generates an undesirable cycle of speed escalation and reduced safety. As a 2016 Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) report stated, “The 85th percentile speed is not a stationary point. It is, rather, a moving target that increases when speed limits are raised” (Farmer 2016).' Rather than relying primarily on the 85th percentile rule, I hope Michigan gives full weight to the additional factors the MUTCD manual mentions, like “(A) road characteristics, shoulder condition, grade, alignment, and sight distance; (B) the pace; (C) roadside development and environment; (D) parking practices and pedestrian activity; and (E) reported crash experience for at least a 12-month period” [1]. If after considering these factors the road is still a speed trap, then the road should be redesigned to align drivers expectations with the posted speed [2], not the other way around. [1] https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Documents/SS1701.pdf https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Documents/SS1701.... [2] methods include narrowing lane width, eliminating or reducing shoulders, reducing the number of lanes, increasing road curvature with pedestrian islands, speed bumps, etc

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

chrisseaton 8y ago

Everyone's got an excuse for why they were in the right when they got a speeding ticket. And you now admit you drive according to the speed limit having been ticketed? So it seems like what the police force are doing is effective.

throwawaymanbot 8y ago
Well once everyone obeys this law... I'm sure they'll figure out something else wrong for everyone to pay them again. And therein lies the problem.
kakarot 8y ago
Surely you don't think there is a larger motivation behind this kind of behavior than predatory fundraising for the local department?
itchyouch 8y ago
Most people dont get ticketed until they are around 15 over. Thats the “unspoken” general expectation. Even some fine schedules, have 1-10 over as a $0 fine. See pennsylvania: https://www.penndot.gov/TravelInPA/Safety/TrafficSafetyAndDriverTopics/Documents/TIPP-Fine-Card-JAN-2014-v5.pdf https://www.penndot.gov/TravelInPA/Safety/TrafficSafetyAndDr... However, some draconian towns like Collegedale, TN which advertise no crime statistic in 20-30 years feed off the college kids and give them 5mph over tickets all day long. Its not necessarily about changing behavior, but there is a balance to be striken between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  5mph over can be the difference between life and death in a crash with a pedestrian. I don’t understand why people trivialise it or act like it’s draconian to expect people to drive under a speed limit.