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This is the claim. In reality, if they can figure out that you are a member of the John Birch Society or otherwise rejecting things (even outside of the written

by burfog 8y ago

This is the claim. In reality, if they can figure out that you are a member of the John Birch Society or otherwise rejecting things (even outside of the written assignment) you'll be lucky to get a D. For example, if they happen to spot you outside of class trying to raise support for the "wrong" political cause, then that might affect the grade. If presenting to NIH and DARPA is what matters, surely there are far more efficient and effective ways to teach this. It doesn't have to suck up 2.5% of a human lifetime and the cost of a 3-bedroom house.

mattkrause 8y ago
I'm sorry you had bad professors, but this has absolutely not been my experience and I don't think yours--if it ever happened outside of a conservative talking point--is very typical. I also have no idea where you're taking a gen-ed class that costs $100,000-$1,000,000 or takes 25.% of your life. A typical course is 15 weeks @ <3 hrs/week, which is not even 1/100th of a percent of a typical lifespan, and you maybe take 3-6 gen-ed classes at most universities. As for efficiency....I'll admit that part of the rationale behind these requirements is the idea that everyone should be exposed to a wide range of ideas. However, I think it's not totally bonkers pedagogically either. A random collection of 18 year olds won't have much expertise--and even less in common. Literature (and, to some extent, history) gives everyone a "data set" to work from, and it's one where there are lots of possible interpretations. No one is going to have a hot take on the contents in Bio/Chem/Math/Physics 101 or 102; that stuff has been settled for decades.
- burfog 8y ago
  It's not one class. It's two years of these classes. For example, in a 4-year Computer Science BS degree you get 2 years of indoctrination, 1 year of CS, and 1 year of semi-related stuff like physics. I don't think it is proper to only count time spent in the classroom. Depending on the school schedule (4 or 5 at once? summers?), the required 16 to 30 classes of this stuff will occupy 2 years. If a person lives 80 years and spends 2 years on this stuff, it is 2.5% of their life. Houses in much of the USA can be had for $100,000. Two years of college can easily exceed that even without including dorms and the opportunity cost of foregone salary. I think you could break $200,000 for two years at the expensive schools, and make that $600,000 if we include trimming a career short by a couple years. I somehow managed to dodge the worst of this stuff with very careful class selection and a fortunately-timed transfer to a different college. My kids have been hit by unfair grading however, as was my father. For my father: even half a century ago, an assignment to write about nuclear weapons would get you a D- if you argued in favor of getting more of them. (and in case you wonder, he is an excellent writer) This exposure to a wide range of ideas is not just unidirectional for political outlook. It's also that way by field of study, with the non-STEM majors able to graduate without much science or math. Typically they can get away with something like College Algebra (a repeat of 8th grade), Astronomy, and Nutrition. One shouldn't be able to graduate without Statistics (a calculus-based one), 3 semesters of Physics (again with calculus) with labs, 2 semesters of Chemistry with labs, 2 semesters of Biology with labs, microeconomics, and macroeconomics.

by burfog 8y ago

mattkrause 8y ago

I'm sorry you had bad professors, but this has absolutely not been my experience and I don't think yours--if it ever happened outside of a conservative talking point--is very typical. I also have no idea where you're taking a gen-ed class that costs $100,000-$1,000,000 or takes 25.% of your life. A typical course is 15 weeks @ <3 hrs/week, which is not even 1/100th of a percent of a typical lifespan, and you maybe take 3-6 gen-ed classes at most universities. As for efficiency....I'll admit that part of the rationale behind these requirements is the idea that everyone should be exposed to a wide range of ideas. However, I think it's not totally bonkers pedagogically either. A random collection of 18 year olds won't have much expertise--and even less in common. Literature (and, to some extent, history) gives everyone a "data set" to work from, and it's one where there are lots of possible interpretations. No one is going to have a hot take on the contents in Bio/Chem/Math/Physics 101 or 102; that stuff has been settled for decades.

burfog 8y ago
It's not one class. It's two years of these classes. For example, in a 4-year Computer Science BS degree you get 2 years of indoctrination, 1 year of CS, and 1 year of semi-related stuff like physics. I don't think it is proper to only count time spent in the classroom. Depending on the school schedule (4 or 5 at once? summers?), the required 16 to 30 classes of this stuff will occupy 2 years. If a person lives 80 years and spends 2 years on this stuff, it is 2.5% of their life. Houses in much of the USA can be had for $100,000. Two years of college can easily exceed that even without including dorms and the opportunity cost of foregone salary. I think you could break $200,000 for two years at the expensive schools, and make that $600,000 if we include trimming a career short by a couple years. I somehow managed to dodge the worst of this stuff with very careful class selection and a fortunately-timed transfer to a different college. My kids have been hit by unfair grading however, as was my father. For my father: even half a century ago, an assignment to write about nuclear weapons would get you a D- if you argued in favor of getting more of them. (and in case you wonder, he is an excellent writer) This exposure to a wide range of ideas is not just unidirectional for political outlook. It's also that way by field of study, with the non-STEM majors able to graduate without much science or math. Typically they can get away with something like College Algebra (a repeat of 8th grade), Astronomy, and Nutrition. One shouldn't be able to graduate without Statistics (a calculus-based one), 3 semesters of Physics (again with calculus) with labs, 2 semesters of Chemistry with labs, 2 semesters of Biology with labs, microeconomics, and macroeconomics.