3 ms·

I have firsthand experience with abuse, and I think in many cases abusers do love those they harm. I don't see how acknowledging this makes abuse any more accep

I have firsthand experience with abuse, and I think in many cases abusers do love those they harm. I don't see how acknowledging this makes abuse any more acceptable. In fact, I think often that's what makes abuse so hard on victims: they know that their feelings towards their abuser are real and they also see that their abuser often cares about them, and it is hard to reconcile this with how they are treated. I'm not an expert on this, but it seems to me a better way to frame it is something like: loving someone doesn't excuse being treated this way.

GuiA 8y ago
What does it mean, to “love” someone? Is it a prescriptive phenomenon - where if I say I love you, then we must take it at face value regardless of my actions towards you? Or is it a more descriptive thing, where my acts may show that I love you even though I may never tell you the words “I love you” explicitly as such? Or is the act of “loving” a purely self centered one - where my love is purely a means to fulfill my own needs (of wanting to be desired, appreciated, needed, respected, empowered, etc)?
- jeffreyrogers 8y ago
  I don't think it makes sense to try to define "love" independently of a relationship between two people. If person B says person A loves them, then that it a good indication that A does in fact love B, particularly if person A would agree with that statement as well.
mindgam3 8y ago
I also have extensive experience with chronic abuse. I would argue strongly that abusers do not love those they harm. Abuse is not an expression of love. If you want to argue that abusers think they are loving those they harm, perhaps because they don't know any better, perhaps because they themselves received abuse disguised as "love" during their formative years, then I could agree with that. But love doesn't cause harm to people. Full stop. Not even "tough love". In my experience it has actually been quite liberating to realize that AbuserX does not and did not love me. It's really confusing to be in this middle ground where I think they love me and yet they continue to deliberately harm me. This leads to a very twisted version of love that exposes one to more dysfunctional, abusive relationships that repeat the original cycle. Break the cycle. Repeat after me. If somebody is abusing you, it's not love.
- jeffreyrogers 8y ago
  I think you're misunderstanding me. I don't believe abuse is an expression of love, and certainly didn't intend for my comment to be interpreted that way. My claim was someone can abuse someone and also love them. It seems like you disagree with that statement, which is fine. I don't think we will resolve that disagreement online.

GuiA 8y ago

What does it mean, to “love” someone? Is it a prescriptive phenomenon - where if I say I love you, then we must take it at face value regardless of my actions towards you? Or is it a more descriptive thing, where my acts may show that I love you even though I may never tell you the words “I love you” explicitly as such? Or is the act of “loving” a purely self centered one - where my love is purely a means to fulfill my own needs (of wanting to be desired, appreciated, needed, respected, empowered, etc)?

jeffreyrogers 8y ago
I don't think it makes sense to try to define "love" independently of a relationship between two people. If person B says person A loves them, then that it a good indication that A does in fact love B, particularly if person A would agree with that statement as well.

mindgam3 8y ago

I also have extensive experience with chronic abuse. I would argue strongly that abusers do not love those they harm. Abuse is not an expression of love. If you want to argue that abusers think they are loving those they harm, perhaps because they don't know any better, perhaps because they themselves received abuse disguised as "love" during their formative years, then I could agree with that. But love doesn't cause harm to people. Full stop. Not even "tough love". In my experience it has actually been quite liberating to realize that AbuserX does not and did not love me. It's really confusing to be in this middle ground where I think they love me and yet they continue to deliberately harm me. This leads to a very twisted version of love that exposes one to more dysfunctional, abusive relationships that repeat the original cycle. Break the cycle. Repeat after me. If somebody is abusing you, it's not love.

jeffreyrogers 8y ago
I think you're misunderstanding me. I don't believe abuse is an expression of love, and certainly didn't intend for my comment to be interpreted that way. My claim was someone can abuse someone and also love them. It seems like you disagree with that statement, which is fine. I don't think we will resolve that disagreement online.