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life expectancy is a bad measure of healthcare effectiveness 1) infant mortality heavily impacts life expectancy. The us has a few subpopulations that have ver

life expectancy is a bad measure of healthcare effectiveness 1) infant mortality heavily impacts life expectancy. The us has a few subpopulations that have very high infant mortality regardless of socioeconomic status. 2) The us has a high teen murder rate 3) The US has very high levels of obesity 4) There is a tremendous genetic component to life expectancy. Some sub populations (asians) have very high life expectancy, their home countries reflect that. Little dogs for example can live 20 years, where large breeds die at 15. If you pull out 1 and 2, we are up there with other euro nations. Better measures are things like life expectancy after <pick an age where you think we start needing lots of healthcare> The sad thing is that the people who are experts in this know these things, but still push the narrative that it is our medical system.

merpnderp 8y ago
You're absolutely right, this is the golden age of yellow journalism. Especially when the person who owns the magazine is about to run for president.
terrywilcox 8y ago
So if you simply eliminate some of America's health care problems, America is like other nations? That's convenient.
- jlavine 8y ago
  The above commenter mentioned demographic and lifestyle discrepancies not adequately accounted for in this comparison of outcomes among countries... not health care problems, as you're implying.
  - terrywilcox 8y ago
    An infant mortality rate far above other first world nations isn't a health care problem? We're talking about kids too young to be be gunned down, so they're not part of America's remarkable teen-gun-death statistics. They're predominantly kids from poor families, who don't live healthy lifestyles or have good health insurance. If the family doesn't have access to good healthcare, the kid's chances of survival are lessened. Maybe Russia could improve its placement on the list if they ignored the health care issues caused by alcoholism. And then America could improve its position by declaring obesity, and the health problems that come with it, a lifestyle issue instead of a health issue.
    - jlavine 8y ago
      You're conflating health issues with health care issues. What health care system now implemented in any country, or proposed for implementation in America by anyone, controls how people eat, how much alcohol, tobacco, and other harmful drugs they consume, how often they exercise, how much they sleep, whether they provide healthy environments for their children, etc.? Just as schools and teachers are simply one factor in educational outcomes, the medical system is simply one factor in health outcomes. You must consider lifestyle, environmental, and genetic/epigenetic factors to get a full picture. You must equalize for these factors - as far as this is possible - to fairly compare the effect of the medical system and associated policies alone on health outcomes in different countries. Properly accounting for genetic and lifestyle differences in different sub-populations is largely taboo, and this prevents a fair comparison of medical systems across countries. Edit: Consider this article by the CDC on infant mortality: https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/MaternalInfantHealth/InfantMortality.htm https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/MaternalInfantHealth/... Over 23,000 infants died in the United States in 2016. The five leading causes of infant death in 2016 were: Birth defects. Preterm birth and low birth weight. Sudden infant death syndrome. Maternal pregnancy complications. Injuries (e.g., suffocation). While the medical system can intervene, these causes all seem far more dependent on genetics, the mother's (and to a lesser extent the father's) behavior during pregnancy and the infancy of the child. In 2016, infant mortality rates by race and ethnicity were as follows: Non-Hispanic black: 11.4; American Indian/Alaska Native: 9.4; Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander: 7.4; Hispanic: 5.0; Non-Hispanic white: 4.9; Asian: 3.6 Compare white Americans with European countries, and the discrepancy drops significantly. There's something beyond the medical / health care system playing a role here.
HarryHirsch 8y ago
Points 1 - 3 are all public health issues. When you talk about healthcare you can't neglect that part. By the way, physicians will say the proper measure for healthcare efficiency is disability-adjusted life years. The point is not to be alive but to live well. Getting shot in adolescence is a public health problem. Hanging around for 10 more years with full-strength Alzheimers is no advance.
deleted 8y ago
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merpnderp 8y ago

You're absolutely right, this is the golden age of yellow journalism. Especially when the person who owns the magazine is about to run for president.

terrywilcox 8y ago

So if you simply eliminate some of America's health care problems, America is like other nations? That's convenient.

jlavine 8y ago
The above commenter mentioned demographic and lifestyle discrepancies not adequately accounted for in this comparison of outcomes among countries... not health care problems, as you're implying.
- terrywilcox 8y ago
  An infant mortality rate far above other first world nations isn't a health care problem? We're talking about kids too young to be be gunned down, so they're not part of America's remarkable teen-gun-death statistics. They're predominantly kids from poor families, who don't live healthy lifestyles or have good health insurance. If the family doesn't have access to good healthcare, the kid's chances of survival are lessened. Maybe Russia could improve its placement on the list if they ignored the health care issues caused by alcoholism. And then America could improve its position by declaring obesity, and the health problems that come with it, a lifestyle issue instead of a health issue.
  - jlavine 8y ago
    You're conflating health issues with health care issues. What health care system now implemented in any country, or proposed for implementation in America by anyone, controls how people eat, how much alcohol, tobacco, and other harmful drugs they consume, how often they exercise, how much they sleep, whether they provide healthy environments for their children, etc.? Just as schools and teachers are simply one factor in educational outcomes, the medical system is simply one factor in health outcomes. You must consider lifestyle, environmental, and genetic/epigenetic factors to get a full picture. You must equalize for these factors - as far as this is possible - to fairly compare the effect of the medical system and associated policies alone on health outcomes in different countries. Properly accounting for genetic and lifestyle differences in different sub-populations is largely taboo, and this prevents a fair comparison of medical systems across countries. Edit: Consider this article by the CDC on infant mortality: https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/MaternalInfantHealth/InfantMortality.htm https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/MaternalInfantHealth/... Over 23,000 infants died in the United States in 2016. The five leading causes of infant death in 2016 were: Birth defects. Preterm birth and low birth weight. Sudden infant death syndrome. Maternal pregnancy complications. Injuries (e.g., suffocation). While the medical system can intervene, these causes all seem far more dependent on genetics, the mother's (and to a lesser extent the father's) behavior during pregnancy and the infancy of the child. In 2016, infant mortality rates by race and ethnicity were as follows: Non-Hispanic black: 11.4; American Indian/Alaska Native: 9.4; Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander: 7.4; Hispanic: 5.0; Non-Hispanic white: 4.9; Asian: 3.6 Compare white Americans with European countries, and the discrepancy drops significantly. There's something beyond the medical / health care system playing a role here.

HarryHirsch 8y ago

Points 1 - 3 are all public health issues. When you talk about healthcare you can't neglect that part. By the way, physicians will say the proper measure for healthcare efficiency is disability-adjusted life years. The point is not to be alive but to live well. Getting shot in adolescence is a public health problem. Hanging around for 10 more years with full-strength Alzheimers is no advance.

deleted 8y ago

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