7 ms·

The methodology here is not good. All they're doing is comparing average health care cost vs life expectancy. They don't measure standard of care, accessibility

The methodology here is not good. All they're doing is comparing average health care cost vs life expectancy. They don't measure standard of care, accessibility of treatment, etc. This is especially important when looking at end-of-life care, which I speculate affects these both of these metrics the most. A hospice with private rooms, friendly staff, and social engagement will score lower than a hospital that keeps someone alive in a coma.

billsmithaustin 8y ago
If I were considering running for President in 2020, and I owned a large media company, I might publish articles like this, too. That aside, you can't tie all of life expectancy to health care. For example, diet, life style, genetics, and environment are all factors too.
- cuboidGoat 8y ago
  The vast majority of the large scale increase in human lifespan you can put down to improvements in medical knowledge. People used to get their teeth knocked out and replaced with wooden ones as a wedding present, the idea being that the lucky couple would then have less risk of being killed by a tooth infection before the age of 40, as was common.
caf 8y ago
You would have to keep a heck of a lot of people in comas for a heck of a long time to be able to move the needle on life expectancy by several years.
cuboidGoat 8y ago
Could you indicate which health care systems you think are skewing the results in this manner? As it would seem to require keeping large numbers of the very elderly alive in comas while also not providing widespread elderly care, which seems an unlikely policy to pursue.
nabla9 8y ago
Bloomberg analysis gives one point of view. OECD has published data where you can compares 5-year survival rates after major cancers, heart attack 30-day survival after hospitalization, stroke, ischemic stroke etc. They also keep track of infant mortality, maternal mortality etc. http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=HEALTH_STAT# http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=HEALTH_STAT# Data shows that Japan, South Korea, Israel and Nordics are have the best healthcare quality using these measures. US is often in top 10, or at least mid-tier. Beast cancer is treated very well in US. But what is wrong with the US and infant mortality and perinatal mortality? How can the US be so low?
- rectang 8y ago
  In the US, we make services used by the poor inconvenient and ineffective in order to (ahem) motivate people to not be poor. Lousy results are to be expected for that segment of the population.
  - DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
    That strikes me as an overly simplistic view, largely because it implies a unity of motivation across the various persons involved in U.S. healthcare policy-making and delivery. If you're sure of your statement, it would be helpful to cite some supporting evidence.
    - rectang 8y ago
      The best example is work requirements for Medicaid as implemented by some states (Kentucky for one), which end up making it difficult to stay eligible for Medicaid.
  - endymi0n 8y ago
    Motivate? Most definitely yes. Equip? Not at all. The American Dream (especially that pesky part about "opportunity") died long ago. If you're born with a chronic condition such as diabetes or your parents can't afford an education giving you the chance of a decently paying job, better go die. That being said, just looking at the raw numbers I'd dare to say that health care in the US is just about as inconvenient and ineffective for rich people as it is for poor...
brownbat 8y ago
To your point, the key drivers of the recent decline in US life expectancy seem to be suicides, alcohol, and opioids. Some of these are definitely mediated by the quality of the health care system, but culture, public policy, and economics have impacts too. https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/news/20180816/us-opioid-abuse-fueling-life-expectancy-decline https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/news/20180816/...

billsmithaustin 8y ago

If I were considering running for President in 2020, and I owned a large media company, I might publish articles like this, too. That aside, you can't tie all of life expectancy to health care. For example, diet, life style, genetics, and environment are all factors too.

cuboidGoat 8y ago
The vast majority of the large scale increase in human lifespan you can put down to improvements in medical knowledge. People used to get their teeth knocked out and replaced with wooden ones as a wedding present, the idea being that the lucky couple would then have less risk of being killed by a tooth infection before the age of 40, as was common.

caf 8y ago

You would have to keep a heck of a lot of people in comas for a heck of a long time to be able to move the needle on life expectancy by several years.

cuboidGoat 8y ago

Could you indicate which health care systems you think are skewing the results in this manner? As it would seem to require keeping large numbers of the very elderly alive in comas while also not providing widespread elderly care, which seems an unlikely policy to pursue.

nabla9 8y ago

Bloomberg analysis gives one point of view. OECD has published data where you can compares 5-year survival rates after major cancers, heart attack 30-day survival after hospitalization, stroke, ischemic stroke etc. They also keep track of infant mortality, maternal mortality etc. http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=HEALTH_STAT# http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=HEALTH_STAT# Data shows that Japan, South Korea, Israel and Nordics are have the best healthcare quality using these measures. US is often in top 10, or at least mid-tier. Beast cancer is treated very well in US. But what is wrong with the US and infant mortality and perinatal mortality? How can the US be so low?

rectang 8y ago
In the US, we make services used by the poor inconvenient and ineffective in order to (ahem) motivate people to not be poor. Lousy results are to be expected for that segment of the population.
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
  That strikes me as an overly simplistic view, largely because it implies a unity of motivation across the various persons involved in U.S. healthcare policy-making and delivery. If you're sure of your statement, it would be helpful to cite some supporting evidence.
  - rectang 8y ago
    The best example is work requirements for Medicaid as implemented by some states (Kentucky for one), which end up making it difficult to stay eligible for Medicaid.
- endymi0n 8y ago
  Motivate? Most definitely yes. Equip? Not at all. The American Dream (especially that pesky part about "opportunity") died long ago. If you're born with a chronic condition such as diabetes or your parents can't afford an education giving you the chance of a decently paying job, better go die. That being said, just looking at the raw numbers I'd dare to say that health care in the US is just about as inconvenient and ineffective for rich people as it is for poor...

brownbat 8y ago

To your point, the key drivers of the recent decline in US life expectancy seem to be suicides, alcohol, and opioids. Some of these are definitely mediated by the quality of the health care system, but culture, public policy, and economics have impacts too. https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/news/20180816/us-opioid-abuse-fueling-life-expectancy-decline https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/news/20180816/...