6 ms·

I am a gay man[0] who has contributed to a number of open source projects significantly. However I stopped when they implemented “Code of Conducts” that deny ba

I am a gay man[0] who has contributed to a number of open source projects significantly. However I stopped when they implemented “Code of Conducts” that deny basic rights such as innocent until proven guilty and the right to face your accuser. (The popular one keeps accusers anonymous, thus the victim has no chance to defend themselves.) The truth is a maintainer can eject someone without a CoC. The purpose of CoC, as stated by its author in her very bigoted and hostile twitter feed is to eradicate meritocracy. CoC lets some random person with a political axe to grind derail a project with accusations about things done outside the project (Eg a disagreement on twitter) backed up with a gang of people accusing the project maintainers of being bigots if they don’t eject their intended victim.[1] This is bullying. I won’t invest time in projects where the contributors are not respected and maintainers will listen to a politically motivated mob over reason. Since the proponents of CoCs seemingly are always people who violate them constantly (under the CoC its own author should be kicked from every project that adopts it based on her twitter comments) it’s clear the intention is not to protect anyone. The intention is to force their politics into open source projects. [0] This means I get to see abuse from straight bigots as well as SJWs who hate me for being male and apparently think preferring men is discrimination against women! (Or so they have told me on twitter.). I only mention I’m gay here so you understand I’m not some neonazi. I’ve been jumped outside a bar and called a faggot in Oklahoma, but I don’t feel these “codes of conduct” do anything to protect me, quite the opposite. So they don’t address the key case that I’m guessing HN users will assume they do. Gay men are considered highly privileged these days, and thus subhuman. [1] There are many examples, check the reddit threads in /r/Linux of the abuse of CoC.

poilcn 8y ago
Well, it happened before. No CoC was needed. Reiser4.
Tbrowaway1q72 8y ago
Sorry to say but proven until guilty and basic rights does not apply to everything in life (tax law, private endeavors, I can refuse service to someone, I can kick you out from my home without listening to you if I think you did something wrong). If someone is accusing you and they don't want to hear you, stop contributing. It is is not criminal justice. You are not obligated to spend your time fighting with assholes. Find better proj to spend your time on, just as you written.
- poilcn 8y ago
  What if we talk about someone who's already spent hundred of hours on a certain project and this happens? It's not like you can ignore it. Or what if we talk about the creator of the project.
  - Tbrowaway1q72 8y ago
    Get over with it. So woman should stay with a man that is beating her because they are together for 10 years and have 2 kids? If environment is toxic leave, look for help.
- _pmf_ 8y ago
  > If someone is accusing you and they don't want to hear you, stop contributing. You're assuming he's contributing privately and can stop at leisure.
  - Tbrowaway1q72 8y ago
    He wrote he stopped.
chimprich 8y ago
> I get to see abuse from [...] SJWs who hate me for being male and apparently think preferring men is discrimination against women! Please forgive me the scepticism, but this sounds like a standard far-right caricature of liberal beliefs rather than anything that actually happened. People don't actually think like this. If I have to assume good faith here, then another possibility is that you were being trolled. (Edit: bearing in mind your antipathy towards anonymous complainants, would you be willing to submit a link to the Twitter thread in question?)
- CryptoRetired 8y ago
  By the way, under the CoC you are abusing me by marginalizing me and denying my experience and struggles as a gay man in homophobic America. Good thing I don’t believe in it and don’t care. So I’ll answer you seriously: But being called a faggot in Oklahoma rings true to you, right? Think about that. That example is more specific because it’s the only time a right winger has been mean... straight leftists being abusive has happened an uncounted number of times. My crime is I’m not a leftist, therefore I’m not a person. — Oh shit, I admitted it. Now I can expect to be deplatformed from HN. — Anyway apparently it’s not just me who feels this way. Lots of examples but here’s one: https://www.reddit.com/r/TiADiscussion/comments/3daeft/tired_of_the_sjw_hate_for_gays/?st=JMG4WAZ1&sh=08d48b51 https://www.reddit.com/r/TiADiscussion/comments/3daeft/tired...
tajen 8y ago
I’m a gay man too and I flee conferences, OSS and companies that emphasize code of conducts. It’s highly linked to the intention of increasing female ratio and decreasing meritocracy, and it generally means the organization has fallen prey to a politically motivated agenda and becomes less focussed on business. I guess only successful ones with high margins do that. When you find business-centered no-bullshit people who undertake attempts, risks and ambitious projects, violent criticism is part of the deal, but extreme competence too. The fact that Linus himself goes for a retreat to reevaluate himself, despite staying under the nanodjikstra unit, is deeply worrying for the future of open-source. If they’ve succeeded to break him down, they’ll take ownership of the rest.
notacoward 8y ago
> The purpose of CoC, as stated by its author ... is to eradicate meritocracy. For the sake of clarity, it's important to note here that "meritocracy" is a deeply contentious word. What "merit" is being rewarded? True technical ability/contribution? Measured how? Or access and privilege (for which it's a misnomer but still often used)? Which definition does the author of the CoC oppose? Which definition do you defend? You obviously intend "eradicate meritocracy" as a condemnation, but some might see eradicating pretend meritocracy as a good thing.
- pseudalopex 8y ago
  It's also worth noting that the term "meritocracy" was coined to highlight questions like yours.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

poilcn 8y ago

Well, it happened before. No CoC was needed. Reiser4.

Tbrowaway1q72 8y ago

Sorry to say but proven until guilty and basic rights does not apply to everything in life (tax law, private endeavors, I can refuse service to someone, I can kick you out from my home without listening to you if I think you did something wrong). If someone is accusing you and they don't want to hear you, stop contributing. It is is not criminal justice. You are not obligated to spend your time fighting with assholes. Find better proj to spend your time on, just as you written.

poilcn 8y ago
What if we talk about someone who's already spent hundred of hours on a certain project and this happens? It's not like you can ignore it. Or what if we talk about the creator of the project.
- Tbrowaway1q72 8y ago
  Get over with it. So woman should stay with a man that is beating her because they are together for 10 years and have 2 kids? If environment is toxic leave, look for help.
_pmf_ 8y ago
> If someone is accusing you and they don't want to hear you, stop contributing. You're assuming he's contributing privately and can stop at leisure.
- Tbrowaway1q72 8y ago
  He wrote he stopped.

chimprich 8y ago

> I get to see abuse from [...] SJWs who hate me for being male and apparently think preferring men is discrimination against women! Please forgive me the scepticism, but this sounds like a standard far-right caricature of liberal beliefs rather than anything that actually happened. People don't actually think like this. If I have to assume good faith here, then another possibility is that you were being trolled. (Edit: bearing in mind your antipathy towards anonymous complainants, would you be willing to submit a link to the Twitter thread in question?)

CryptoRetired 8y ago
By the way, under the CoC you are abusing me by marginalizing me and denying my experience and struggles as a gay man in homophobic America. Good thing I don’t believe in it and don’t care. So I’ll answer you seriously: But being called a faggot in Oklahoma rings true to you, right? Think about that. That example is more specific because it’s the only time a right winger has been mean... straight leftists being abusive has happened an uncounted number of times. My crime is I’m not a leftist, therefore I’m not a person. — Oh shit, I admitted it. Now I can expect to be deplatformed from HN. — Anyway apparently it’s not just me who feels this way. Lots of examples but here’s one: https://www.reddit.com/r/TiADiscussion/comments/3daeft/tired_of_the_sjw_hate_for_gays/?st=JMG4WAZ1&sh=08d48b51 https://www.reddit.com/r/TiADiscussion/comments/3daeft/tired...

tajen 8y ago

I’m a gay man too and I flee conferences, OSS and companies that emphasize code of conducts. It’s highly linked to the intention of increasing female ratio and decreasing meritocracy, and it generally means the organization has fallen prey to a politically motivated agenda and becomes less focussed on business. I guess only successful ones with high margins do that. When you find business-centered no-bullshit people who undertake attempts, risks and ambitious projects, violent criticism is part of the deal, but extreme competence too. The fact that Linus himself goes for a retreat to reevaluate himself, despite staying under the nanodjikstra unit, is deeply worrying for the future of open-source. If they’ve succeeded to break him down, they’ll take ownership of the rest.

notacoward 8y ago

> The purpose of CoC, as stated by its author ... is to eradicate meritocracy. For the sake of clarity, it's important to note here that "meritocracy" is a deeply contentious word. What "merit" is being rewarded? True technical ability/contribution? Measured how? Or access and privilege (for which it's a misnomer but still often used)? Which definition does the author of the CoC oppose? Which definition do you defend? You obviously intend "eradicate meritocracy" as a condemnation, but some might see eradicating pretend meritocracy as a good thing.

pseudalopex 8y ago
It's also worth noting that the term "meritocracy" was coined to highlight questions like yours.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]