5 ms·

I think his point was the size of the human finger creates some hard limitations for multi-touch UI design. So at any resolution a 7" tablet isn't going to offe

by jsz0 16y ago

I think his point was the size of the human finger creates some hard limitations for multi-touch UI design. So at any resolution a 7" tablet isn't going to offer the physical space required to significantly increase the number of tap targets on screen. As a result you're probably going to end up with applications that look, feel and operate more like a SmartPhone app though with less scrolling & resizing. I believe this might be partly negated by the way Android hides so much functionality under the Menu button. You possibly don't need significantly more tap targets on-screen at any given time in Android to have a good workable tablet UI. It does water down the whole multi-touch experience by adding a layer of abstraction to the UI. Direct manipulation is the real magic of multi-touch and that's lost when we start working with multi-step procedural UI checklists to do common tasks.

kenjackson 16y ago
OK. I get what you're saying, but I think it is BS myself. And to be perfectly honest I think Steve thinks its BS too. And they'll be working on it until the day he says, "A lot of people have said 'Steve, a 7" tablet would be great'. Well today we have something a lot better than great". Anyone who thinks you can't do a differentiated multitouch 7" UI is either lying or incompetent. Steve is clearly not the latter. My prediction is that within the next 18 months they release a 7" iPad. Sooner if a 7" Android tablet takes off.
- glhaynes 16y ago
  It's just hard for me to see what value a 7" iPad would bring. Just as Steve said, I can't pocket it, so I still have to have a smartphone. And if I'm going to use something other than my smartphone (which Steve went out of his way today to say that most iPad buyers already have), why would I want to use something only slightly bigger? If anything, the 10" iPad is too small. The concern isn't that Apple couldn't make a variant of iOS run well on a 7" tablet: it's that the product itself doesn't really have a purpose for being, and that it's asking too much for app makers to target (well) three different sizes that are so close to each other. (Now, is the current iPad too heavy? Yes. I strongly expect the next iPad revision to be 9.7" and 1/3rd lighter.)
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    I disagree almost across the board with you. The 10" iPad is just too big for me to feel comfortable carrying around (and yes, it is too heavy. That is the main reason I returned mine). The problem today is that I have a phone that is really too small to be super useful. I've made considerable concessions, but really browsing and apps on the iPhone kind of suck. It's just they suck a LOT less than phone apps used to. And given the relative infrequency for which I talk on the phone, why do I want to have the phone drive the size of this device? At about 7" I have an adequate mobile experience, and I can stop using my phone for things it really isn't very good at. With that said, I'll take a 10" tablet at .75 pounds, which folds in half to the width of something like the Samsung Galaxy tab today (and of course, unfolded there is no visible seam).
    - glhaynes 16y ago
      Please stop downvoting this post. My sentiments are not the same as kenjackson's, but his are valid and well-expressed. Reply if you disagree with him, but there's no reason to downvote.
    - roc 16y ago
      Do you have a 7" tablet?
      - kenjackson 16y ago
        I've used one, but I don't own one. I do plan on owning one soon though. I was anticipating owning a 7" iPad early 2011, but now it appears that it'll likely be a 7" Android 3.0 device. I have owned a 10" iPad though.
        roc 16y ago
        I'm just wondering what device it was, and what tasks it did better than the phone, to the extent that you'd carry it around. Because I'm having a hard time seeing what tasks would be notably better on a half-ipad-sized screen. Reading would be better than a phone, sure. Videos, sure. But beyond that, I'm not sure what the draw is. It seems any task beyond those two (consumption, the very thing people dismissed the ipad as only being good for) would suffer from the lack of significantly increased tap real-estate. I mean, even the keyboard itself would have to be annoying. In portrait, it'd be little-better than a phone and in landscape it's the same width as the ipad's portrait keyboard, which is just not good. (far too narrow to touch-type, but too wide to thumb-type[1]) And I can't say I'd be optimistic about Android app developers notably filling the gap at the outset. Even if they can figure out how to add capability in that space, with the array of screen sizes on their way, I wouldn't want to gamble on how much attention they'll be spending on any one screen size. Not until there's some shake-out and consolidation. I recall that you had and disliked an iPad. It just seems odd to me that you'd dismiss the iPad as not being useful enough, yet jump on the bandwagon for a device that is inherently less-useful. It'll be smaller and lighter. But still large enough that it's not going in your pocket. So what's the draw? [1] and that's coming from a fairly large-handed fellow; I found the original xbox "duke" controller to be the most comfortable gamepad I'd ever held.
- thought_alarm 16y ago
  What software will this 7" iOS device run? iPad software shrunk down 50% in size, or iPhone software expanded 50% is size? Neither works. Neither is compelling. UI design is fundamentally different between a 4" screen and a 10" screen, regardless of the actual screen resolution. The only reason people are talking about 7" tablets because Android 2.2 is absolutely ridiculous on a 10" screen (see previous paragraph). It's also a way for these manufacturers to compete on price with the iPad.

by jsz0 16y ago

kenjackson 16y ago

OK. I get what you're saying, but I think it is BS myself. And to be perfectly honest I think Steve thinks its BS too. And they'll be working on it until the day he says, "A lot of people have said 'Steve, a 7" tablet would be great'. Well today we have something a lot better than great". Anyone who thinks you can't do a differentiated multitouch 7" UI is either lying or incompetent. Steve is clearly not the latter. My prediction is that within the next 18 months they release a 7" iPad. Sooner if a 7" Android tablet takes off.

glhaynes 16y ago
It's just hard for me to see what value a 7" iPad would bring. Just as Steve said, I can't pocket it, so I still have to have a smartphone. And if I'm going to use something other than my smartphone (which Steve went out of his way today to say that most iPad buyers already have), why would I want to use something only slightly bigger? If anything, the 10" iPad is too small. The concern isn't that Apple couldn't make a variant of iOS run well on a 7" tablet: it's that the product itself doesn't really have a purpose for being, and that it's asking too much for app makers to target (well) three different sizes that are so close to each other. (Now, is the current iPad too heavy? Yes. I strongly expect the next iPad revision to be 9.7" and 1/3rd lighter.)
- kenjackson 16y ago
  I disagree almost across the board with you. The 10" iPad is just too big for me to feel comfortable carrying around (and yes, it is too heavy. That is the main reason I returned mine). The problem today is that I have a phone that is really too small to be super useful. I've made considerable concessions, but really browsing and apps on the iPhone kind of suck. It's just they suck a LOT less than phone apps used to. And given the relative infrequency for which I talk on the phone, why do I want to have the phone drive the size of this device? At about 7" I have an adequate mobile experience, and I can stop using my phone for things it really isn't very good at. With that said, I'll take a 10" tablet at .75 pounds, which folds in half to the width of something like the Samsung Galaxy tab today (and of course, unfolded there is no visible seam).
  - glhaynes 16y ago
    Please stop downvoting this post. My sentiments are not the same as kenjackson's, but his are valid and well-expressed. Reply if you disagree with him, but there's no reason to downvote.
  - roc 16y ago
    Do you have a 7" tablet?
    - kenjackson 16y ago
      I've used one, but I don't own one. I do plan on owning one soon though. I was anticipating owning a 7" iPad early 2011, but now it appears that it'll likely be a 7" Android 3.0 device. I have owned a 10" iPad though.
      - roc 16y ago
        I'm just wondering what device it was, and what tasks it did better than the phone, to the extent that you'd carry it around. Because I'm having a hard time seeing what tasks would be notably better on a half-ipad-sized screen. Reading would be better than a phone, sure. Videos, sure. But beyond that, I'm not sure what the draw is. It seems any task beyond those two (consumption, the very thing people dismissed the ipad as only being good for) would suffer from the lack of significantly increased tap real-estate. I mean, even the keyboard itself would have to be annoying. In portrait, it'd be little-better than a phone and in landscape it's the same width as the ipad's portrait keyboard, which is just not good. (far too narrow to touch-type, but too wide to thumb-type[1]) And I can't say I'd be optimistic about Android app developers notably filling the gap at the outset. Even if they can figure out how to add capability in that space, with the array of screen sizes on their way, I wouldn't want to gamble on how much attention they'll be spending on any one screen size. Not until there's some shake-out and consolidation. I recall that you had and disliked an iPad. It just seems odd to me that you'd dismiss the iPad as not being useful enough, yet jump on the bandwagon for a device that is inherently less-useful. It'll be smaller and lighter. But still large enough that it's not going in your pocket. So what's the draw? [1] and that's coming from a fairly large-handed fellow; I found the original xbox "duke" controller to be the most comfortable gamepad I'd ever held.
thought_alarm 16y ago
What software will this 7" iOS device run? iPad software shrunk down 50% in size, or iPhone software expanded 50% is size? Neither works. Neither is compelling. UI design is fundamentally different between a 4" screen and a 10" screen, regardless of the actual screen resolution. The only reason people are talking about 7" tablets because Android 2.2 is absolutely ridiculous on a 10" screen (see previous paragraph). It's also a way for these manufacturers to compete on price with the iPad.