5 ms·

tl;dr? Long article, title is vaguely interesting, but without a summary I have no idea if I want to invest the time reading it

allthenews 8y ago
Socratic method is too hard on poor diverse students, hurts their delicate feelings, doesn't actually encourage independent thought, and forces pupils to adopt straight white male culture. We are approaching some kind of weird post-merit dystopia.
- dang 8y ago
  That's far from an accurate summary of the article. From the portions I read, it's full of rich information and by no means as one-sided as you claim. Would you please stop posting shallow dismissals and ideological rants to HN? You've been breaking the HN guideline that asks you not to use this site primarily for ideological battle. We ban accounts that do this, regardless of which ideology they're for or against. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use the site as intended from now on.
  - allthenews 8y ago
    >Kennedy pointed out that the legal professional style to which students learn to assimilate is “overwhelmingly white, male, and middle class.”46 But the Socratic method’s encounter with gender, race, and class diversity might related- ly occasion worry about exclusion or oppression in a more tangible way. That is, if the Socratic method causes the kind of terror and disempowerment in students that some have observed, and is stylisti- cally white, male, and middle class, would it not also impose dispropor- tionate harm on students who are women, as well as on racial and class minorities? Of course the article is much more expressive than what I wrote-it is a summary. I didn't inject ideology into this discussion. If you want to be consistent this article shouldn't be allowed either. This is blatant racism, sexism, and classism.
    - nkurz 8y ago
      I didn't inject ideology into this discussion. If you want to be consistent this article shouldn't be allowed either. This is blatant racism, sexism, and classism. The irony is that your "summary" seems to have confused the author's preface describing current trends with her personal opinion. In fact, the majority of the article argues the opposite side, saying that a proper legal education is more important than the risk of offense: I am a cold-calling Socratic professor of criminal law who devotes about the same number of hours in class to sex offenses as to homicide. The subjects are comparable in their interest, difficulty, complexity, and relevance in the world in which we live. I treat them with the same level of seriousness and rigor. She then goes on to explain why she doesn't use trigger warnings because she thinks they are counterproductive. She's making an essentially conservative argument, while you are mistakenly complaining that it's too biased to the liberal side. Dan isn't complaining that you brought ideology into the discussion, but that your "summary" was simplistic and wrong.
  - CryptoRetired 8y ago
    Translation: Anything that disagrees with dangs homophobic, neonazi politics is not tolerated on HN. Unless you agree with him, your opinions are ideological rants. If you do agree with him, of course, abuse, name calling, stalking, harassments, threats of violence, violations of the law and hate speech are ok... as dang himself engages in and provides cover for regularly on this site. Anyone who dares point out this hypocrisy or dares to think for themselves, for that matter, will be censored immediately. Because like all nazis, dang is an intellectual coward who cannot defend his positions, will not recognize his own hypocrisy and abuse, and thinks that silencing people so that the "HN record" only shows one side makes reality. Reality is you're an abusive, lying asshole, and hypocrite. You don't care for diversity, you seek to create a monoculture of group think. And anyone worth a damn has left his site or been driven off.

allthenews 8y ago

Socratic method is too hard on poor diverse students, hurts their delicate feelings, doesn't actually encourage independent thought, and forces pupils to adopt straight white male culture. We are approaching some kind of weird post-merit dystopia.

dang 8y ago
That's far from an accurate summary of the article. From the portions I read, it's full of rich information and by no means as one-sided as you claim. Would you please stop posting shallow dismissals and ideological rants to HN? You've been breaking the HN guideline that asks you not to use this site primarily for ideological battle. We ban accounts that do this, regardless of which ideology they're for or against. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use the site as intended from now on.
- allthenews 8y ago
  >Kennedy pointed out that the legal professional style to which students learn to assimilate is “overwhelmingly white, male, and middle class.”46 But the Socratic method’s encounter with gender, race, and class diversity might related- ly occasion worry about exclusion or oppression in a more tangible way. That is, if the Socratic method causes the kind of terror and disempowerment in students that some have observed, and is stylisti- cally white, male, and middle class, would it not also impose dispropor- tionate harm on students who are women, as well as on racial and class minorities? Of course the article is much more expressive than what I wrote-it is a summary. I didn't inject ideology into this discussion. If you want to be consistent this article shouldn't be allowed either. This is blatant racism, sexism, and classism.
  - nkurz 8y ago
    I didn't inject ideology into this discussion. If you want to be consistent this article shouldn't be allowed either. This is blatant racism, sexism, and classism. The irony is that your "summary" seems to have confused the author's preface describing current trends with her personal opinion. In fact, the majority of the article argues the opposite side, saying that a proper legal education is more important than the risk of offense: I am a cold-calling Socratic professor of criminal law who devotes about the same number of hours in class to sex offenses as to homicide. The subjects are comparable in their interest, difficulty, complexity, and relevance in the world in which we live. I treat them with the same level of seriousness and rigor. She then goes on to explain why she doesn't use trigger warnings because she thinks they are counterproductive. She's making an essentially conservative argument, while you are mistakenly complaining that it's too biased to the liberal side. Dan isn't complaining that you brought ideology into the discussion, but that your "summary" was simplistic and wrong.
- CryptoRetired 8y ago
  Translation: Anything that disagrees with dangs homophobic, neonazi politics is not tolerated on HN. Unless you agree with him, your opinions are ideological rants. If you do agree with him, of course, abuse, name calling, stalking, harassments, threats of violence, violations of the law and hate speech are ok... as dang himself engages in and provides cover for regularly on this site. Anyone who dares point out this hypocrisy or dares to think for themselves, for that matter, will be censored immediately. Because like all nazis, dang is an intellectual coward who cannot defend his positions, will not recognize his own hypocrisy and abuse, and thinks that silencing people so that the "HN record" only shows one side makes reality. Reality is you're an abusive, lying asshole, and hypocrite. You don't care for diversity, you seek to create a monoculture of group think. And anyone worth a damn has left his site or been driven off.