5 ms·

>i too would love to see ms take 'phone' seriously Nadella won't because of MS hate. Lots of naive developers are drunk on the false open source android story

>i too would love to see ms take 'phone' seriously Nadella won't because of MS hate. Lots of naive developers are drunk on the false open source android story and won't apps for their OS - e.g. snapchat founder refused to build an app for WP. And kept sending take down notices for community built clients. This is why MS keeps pursing web apps and "universal apps." Ms spent at billions in payment (bribes) to developers to build WP apps, yet. Microsoft of today would never have created Windows. They have tried and failed multiple times to turn Windows into a store only OS. Their OS was unjailbreakable far more so than IOS. WP's inability to share apps is the major reason why WP failed in my own country. Even till today, people still beam android / windows apps. Windows 10 auto updates is another clue that MS is clueless about data costs. I'll bet, more people left Windows for autoupdating than for being insecure.

mgkimsal 8y ago
AFAIR, they weren't doing WP on their own hardware. The end user experience on various WP was (as with many android devices) a mixed bag. Coupled with being perceived as 'late to the game', and people wanting to jump on the app-bandwagon but not having enough resources... WP never got mindshare. PERSONALLY... I think MS could mount another shot at the phone market - but they'd have to be serious, commit long term, and be willing to lose out $ for a while to gain marketshare. I don't recall them spending billions on getting WP apps built. If anything, the anecdotes I heard were mixed - both cheap funding of lots of stupid one-off apps to try to inflate numbers, but cheaping out on funding for established apps with existing users/communities. In neither case did I ever read about billions being spent in those pursuits. Again, I think there's probably one more chance MS has to make a run for this - new leadership since the ballmer days, commitment to manage their own hardware, and a public commitment to long-term investment in that ecosystem... - lots of folks are waking up to the privacy issues in mobile - apple has a story, google doesn't have a terribly good one. Lots of smaller/secondtier players in ios world are fed up with 30% fees. MS could address privacy and fee issues, and attract/keep new market. But... we don't want another 'playsforsure/zune' situation. :/
- vezycash 8y ago
  >MS could address privacy and fee issues I don't think privacy is a mass market appeal. Here's an experiment you could do. Stop a few random persons on the road or on the train and ask their opinion about equivax, Cambridge Analytica, and Chrome's recent privacy violations and I'm sure you'll get blank stares on 90 out of 100 people. As for developer fees - the jumping CEO reduced the app registration fee. No one noticed. He gave the OS for free - OEMs didn't bite. Nadella recently reduced the their store fee from 30% to 15%. And you didn't know about it. I feel that focusing completely on consumers would get MS 95% of the push it needs. The wishes of external parties is what gave us the DRM, Youtube's content ID and much more - all anti-consumer. Developers complained about losing revenue to piracy - voila. Microsoft built WP so that it was impossible to get apps outside the store. Apple has "arguably" been about consumers and we can see where that led them. IMO, fuck everyone else, design consumer friendly stuff. At least that's how Google search, android, and gmail began. https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/campaigns/microsoft-store-new-revenue-share https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/campaigns/micr...
  - rahoulb 8y ago
    > I don't think privacy is a mass market appeal. Here's an experiment you could do. Stop a few random persons on the road or on the train and ask their opinion about equivax, Cambridge Analytica, and Chrome's recent privacy violations and I'm sure you'll get blank stares on 90 out of 100 people. But repeat the same experiment asking them about Facebook listening to their conversations (whether true or not, it's now believed) and about adverts tracking them around the web and those same people will start complaining vociferously and tell you how creepy it is.
  - mycall 8y ago
    Microsoft is investing into IoT now. I could see smartphones morph into different specialized wearable devices, which puts Microsoft ahead of themselves, once again (they are always early to the party without the best party favors).
    - vezycash 8y ago
PascLeRasc 8y ago
Microsoft is a red herring. They should not be talked about in the same context as Google and Apple. They have no idea how to make an OS or desktop software, so much that Windows users have to work together to undo Microsoft's stupid decisions they make on managing Windows. Making a mobile OS, which will be much less user-manageable, would be a disaster for them. I feel bad for the few intelligent people working there.
vetinari 8y ago
> Nadella won't because of MS hate. Which is well-earned, they saved it for decades. What fueled their growth before, now is working against them. > Lots of naive developers are drunk on the false open source android story If you think leopard can change its spots, it's you who is naive. The arrogance with handling Windows 10 should tell you, that they didn't change; they will abuse their position when they think you have no other option. The "naive developers" as you call them know that and will not do anything to put Microsoft into that position. > Ms spent at billions in payment (bribes) to developers to build WP apps, yet. Yes, they did. They thought that their existing partners will help them. Fortunately, they were wrong. > They have tried and failed multiple times to turn Windows into a store only OS. Yes, developers giving Microsoft more power over themselves. What could possibly go wrong... It's a good thing they failed. OS Store is not the thing that keeps Windows used. > Their OS was unjailbreakable far more so than IOS. That's another "feature" nobody asked for. > Windows 10 auto updates is another clue that MS is clueless about data costs. I'll bet, more people left Windows for autoupdating than for being insecure. That's just a symptom of hubris, mentioned above.

mgkimsal 8y ago

AFAIR, they weren't doing WP on their own hardware. The end user experience on various WP was (as with many android devices) a mixed bag. Coupled with being perceived as 'late to the game', and people wanting to jump on the app-bandwagon but not having enough resources... WP never got mindshare. PERSONALLY... I think MS could mount another shot at the phone market - but they'd have to be serious, commit long term, and be willing to lose out $ for a while to gain marketshare. I don't recall them spending billions on getting WP apps built. If anything, the anecdotes I heard were mixed - both cheap funding of lots of stupid one-off apps to try to inflate numbers, but cheaping out on funding for established apps with existing users/communities. In neither case did I ever read about billions being spent in those pursuits. Again, I think there's probably one more chance MS has to make a run for this - new leadership since the ballmer days, commitment to manage their own hardware, and a public commitment to long-term investment in that ecosystem... - lots of folks are waking up to the privacy issues in mobile - apple has a story, google doesn't have a terribly good one. Lots of smaller/secondtier players in ios world are fed up with 30% fees. MS could address privacy and fee issues, and attract/keep new market. But... we don't want another 'playsforsure/zune' situation. :/

vezycash 8y ago
>MS could address privacy and fee issues I don't think privacy is a mass market appeal. Here's an experiment you could do. Stop a few random persons on the road or on the train and ask their opinion about equivax, Cambridge Analytica, and Chrome's recent privacy violations and I'm sure you'll get blank stares on 90 out of 100 people. As for developer fees - the jumping CEO reduced the app registration fee. No one noticed. He gave the OS for free - OEMs didn't bite. Nadella recently reduced the their store fee from 30% to 15%. And you didn't know about it. I feel that focusing completely on consumers would get MS 95% of the push it needs. The wishes of external parties is what gave us the DRM, Youtube's content ID and much more - all anti-consumer. Developers complained about losing revenue to piracy - voila. Microsoft built WP so that it was impossible to get apps outside the store. Apple has "arguably" been about consumers and we can see where that led them. IMO, fuck everyone else, design consumer friendly stuff. At least that's how Google search, android, and gmail began. https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/campaigns/microsoft-store-new-revenue-share https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/campaigns/micr...
- rahoulb 8y ago
  > I don't think privacy is a mass market appeal. Here's an experiment you could do. Stop a few random persons on the road or on the train and ask their opinion about equivax, Cambridge Analytica, and Chrome's recent privacy violations and I'm sure you'll get blank stares on 90 out of 100 people. But repeat the same experiment asking them about Facebook listening to their conversations (whether true or not, it's now believed) and about adverts tracking them around the web and those same people will start complaining vociferously and tell you how creepy it is.
- mycall 8y ago
  Microsoft is investing into IoT now. I could see smartphones morph into different specialized wearable devices, which puts Microsoft ahead of themselves, once again (they are always early to the party without the best party favors).
  - vezycash 8y ago

PascLeRasc 8y ago

Microsoft is a red herring. They should not be talked about in the same context as Google and Apple. They have no idea how to make an OS or desktop software, so much that Windows users have to work together to undo Microsoft's stupid decisions they make on managing Windows. Making a mobile OS, which will be much less user-manageable, would be a disaster for them. I feel bad for the few intelligent people working there.

vetinari 8y ago

> Nadella won't because of MS hate. Which is well-earned, they saved it for decades. What fueled their growth before, now is working against them. > Lots of naive developers are drunk on the false open source android story If you think leopard can change its spots, it's you who is naive. The arrogance with handling Windows 10 should tell you, that they didn't change; they will abuse their position when they think you have no other option. The "naive developers" as you call them know that and will not do anything to put Microsoft into that position. > Ms spent at billions in payment (bribes) to developers to build WP apps, yet. Yes, they did. They thought that their existing partners will help them. Fortunately, they were wrong. > They have tried and failed multiple times to turn Windows into a store only OS. Yes, developers giving Microsoft more power over themselves. What could possibly go wrong... It's a good thing they failed. OS Store is not the thing that keeps Windows used. > Their OS was unjailbreakable far more so than IOS. That's another "feature" nobody asked for. > Windows 10 auto updates is another clue that MS is clueless about data costs. I'll bet, more people left Windows for autoupdating than for being insecure. That's just a symptom of hubris, mentioned above.